About Auto Industry

Everyone has their eyes on the automotive industry lately. BNET Automotive gathers and supplies daily industry trends and news coverage with specific insights for managers and executives, focusing on the major auto companies and parts manufacturers. In addition to detailed auto company trends and profiles, we report on new alliances and partnerships, new models, mergers and acquisitions, labor management, auto unions, investments, and other key issues related to this sector of business.

Dear Jim Letters: The Electric-Car Future

By BNET Auto | Jun 22, 2009

The two Jims have been friends for 20 years, but that doesn’t mean they agree on everything: Jim Motavalli thinks that environmental factors loom large and the EV revolution is right around the corner; Jim Henry thinks the inherent conservatism of American consumers will keep it a niche market for a long time to come. Here’s what happened when they traded off on the subject:

Jim Motavalli: I think the EV revolution is firmly established, and by 2020 a significant portion of the global auto fleet will be either battery powered or plug-in hybrid. Although turning over the fleet could take a long time, I predict 30 to 40 percent EV penetration by 2020.

Jim Henry: In my opinion only two things can drive American consumers into EVs in greater than token numbers, and neither one of them is concern for the environment: 1. If gas prices really skyrocket—say more than $5 per gallon—and then stay there. 2. If fuel-economy legislation makes it so a really high proportion of EVs is the only way for the car companies to achieve their targets. Either way, I think 30 to 40 percent is way too high. Cost, EV range limitations and resistance to “newfangled” technology will all serve as a brake on EV share in the real world.

I had an interesting talk with my neighbor’s father the other day. He’s a retired U.S. Merchant Marine, well-read, globally well-traveled, technologically savvy and not sentimental about cars and car brands. He recently turned down a big discount on a new Toyota Prius because a used Toyota Camry in his view represented a better value. It’s pretty hard to argue with that.

He also has a friend in the Boston area who’s scared to drive his Prius outside the metropolitan area, because the friend is worried that no one but a Toyota dealer will know how to fix it, or even how to tow it. We may agree that the friend with the Prius is being a little silly—Toyota dealerships are pretty much everywhere, and chances are small that on any given trip, the Prius will ever need anything but gasoline—but it shows you how at least some consumers think.

Jim Motavalli: Consumers (and corporations, too) are inherently conservative, we can agree on that. The value of the home computer and the copying machine were not initially recognized. EVs represent a disruptive technology, so they aren’t going to be accepted overnight. And both gas prices and corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) are big drivers. But you’re leaving out two other big ones: climate change and peak oil. Both dictate moving away from fossil fuels, and at a very rapid pace.

I think if we’re not already at global peak oil, with demand exceeding supply, we soon will be. (The actual date will be clear only in retrospect.) The recession has temporarily slowed demand, but recovery will send it roaring back. And as the NASA scientist James Hansen has pointed out, we have soared into the danger zone with more than 350 parts per million of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Business as usual will get us quickly to 500 parts per million, which would result, he says, in “unstable ice sheets, rising sea level out of humanity’s control [and] extermination of a large fraction of the species on Earth.”

What’s consumer preference compared to that? The imperative to move to zero-emission transportation will soon become clear. The auto industry is recognizing these twin crises, and responding with a race to develop game-changing battery packs.

Jim Henry: I don’t disagree what people should do, what they inevitably will have to do. But in the meantime, “consumer preference” outside of a highly motivated few is going to be for what’s easy and familiar, namely the gasoline-powered, internal-combustion engine. In my opinion that’s been key to mass popularity for hybrids, such as it is—it’s not the battery power, it’s the conventional power that convinces people a hybrid is a safe choice.

I took a university course back in 1975 called “Limits to Growth” that predicted we would all be sitting in the dark right about now, knitting sweaters, because we were going to run out of fossil fuels, and because there was nowhere to put spent nuclear fuel. What’s actually happened was that as oil prices rose, new sources of oil came online. What was once impractical and uneconomical became attainable. I don’t think we’ll give up on fossil fuels until the last erg is wrung out of the last piece of oil shale.

Sure, the “highly motivated few” will become more numerous. Media events like An Inconvenient Truth, for instance, probably influence people more than we realize at the time and become part of the accepted wisdom. But I think EVs will remain on the fringe for a long, long time.

BNET User Analysis

Web Buzz:
  • BNET Auto's Jim Henry Hits the Airwaves

    BNET Auto - 291 days 10 hours 57 minutes ago

    BNET Auto’s Two Jims — Jim Henry and Jim Motavalli — have had a busy week. If you’ve been paying attention, you already know about Jim Motavalli’s on-air sparring with Neil Cavuto of Fox Business over global warming and the auto industry’s response. Meanwhile, Jim Henry’s been popping up on radio stations around the country,...

  • Starting an EV Company with 10 People, $5 Million and Chinese Suppliers$

    BNET Auto - 194 days 9 hours 14 minutes ago

    Can you start an EV company with 10 people and $5 million in private investor funding? Dan Russo thinks so. The 30-year veteran of auto suppliers has done just that as CEO of Green Go Tek, based in Milford, Michigan. It doesnt quite operate out of a garage, but its headquarters is 3,300 square feet, and its tech center, where pilot testing...

  • How to scrap paper to cut costs

    ZDNet - 13 days 15 hours 55 minutes ago

    Hey, remember when everyone was talking about the paperless office being just around the corner?  Those were the same folks who thought we’d be in flying cars by now.  Personally, my mini-van not only doesn’t fly, but barely works.  So, the myth of the paperless office won’t need any busting anytime soon, but the economic situation is...

  • Online Shoppers Want Human Helping Hand

    eMarketer Today - 162 days 3 hours 10 minutes ago

    Impersonal e-commerce doesnâ??t always cut it

  • Open Comment Friday

    TmoNews - 179 days 14 hours 38 minutes ago

    It is finally Friday and the weekend is right around the corner, and you know what that means, don’t you? PARTY Open comment Friday!  In case you live under a rock are new to this idea, this is when we open the comments to discuss anything and everything.  On the T-Mobile front you could discuss

Links from the Web Buzz:
 
Reply to Story

BNET TalkbackShare your ideas and expertise on this topic

Subscribe to this discussion via Email or RSS

  •  
    1

    dandybydo

    06/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Dear Jim Letters: The Electric-Car Future

    I have to side with JH on this one. Unless and until we have $5/gallon gas and/or some policy initiative that makes GHG emissions an individual economic issue, EVs and PHEVs are going to have a rough go. Wild fluctuations in fuel prices are not helping automakers get their arms around this challenge either. New CAFE regs will be a serious technology (and cost) driver, and California ZEV mandate will force sales to some degree, but without some real and sustainable market pull to accompany these regulatory pushes, the pathway to alt fuels is going to be a long and winding road indeed.

  •  
    2

    aangel100

    06/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Dear Jim Letters: The Electric-Car Future

    You both missed one scenario that is more likely, in my
    view, than either of yours, and that is that we don't get off
    of oil and we don't move primarily to electric cars.

    In this scenario what happens is oil shoots up in price and
    damages the economy so much that the capacity to replace
    the oil-dependent equipment falls away. The nature of the
    pricing mechanism for oil is that it stays within a relatively
    narrow range all the way up the world production curve. But
    when we get to the top of production and it starts declining,
    the price of oil shoots to untenable levels, just like we saw
    in the summer of 2008. When that happens, businesses go
    bankrupt and sales of cars plummet. Thus the point of us
    being off oil recedes instead of gets closer. This is
    in opposition to what John Henry says.

    This is already happening.

    On an annualized basis, the rate the car fleet is turning over
    has risen from 15 years to 28 years -- people are getting
    poorer and thus aren't buying as many cars. When the next
    oil price spike comes (before 2013 if you use one of
    McKinsey's scenarios but I think it will be sooner), the fleet
    turnover period will get even longer.

    This shouldn't be surprising. As we enter the second half of
    The Age of Oil, the fossil-fuel dependent sectors of the
    economy, like cars and air travel, will be hit hardest and
    first. Where I differ from popular thinking is that I think we
    started getting off oil too late so this way of life we all
    currently enjoy is coming to a close.

    We are just "rounding the hump" of peak oil now. In five
    years when non-OPEC production is down even further and it
    becomes clear that OPEC's statements that they could raise
    their production to 15 or even 25 million barrels a day were
    lies designed to keep us hooked on oil, it will be very clear
    that we collectively made a colossal mistake in waiting as
    long as we did to get off of oil.

    For more, Google 'you've bought your last car' where I run
    through the full line of thinking. And, if you are ready to
    start transitioning to a post-peak world, watch my video
    "Preparing for a Post Peak Life" (also googlable).

    -Andre Angelantoni

  •  
    3

    druggles

    06/24/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Dear Jim Letters: The Electric-Car Future

    I'm still puzzled about the buzz over electric vehicles. First, the electricity has to be generated. Unless I'm wrong, that is still based on fossil fuels, for the most part. Second, what will happen when the demand for electricity rises above what we can produce? Third, where will all these batteries come from? How will they be recycled? When you consider the toxic materials that have to be mined, shipped, and fabricated into batteries, you expend a lot of energy AND produce a lot of pollutants. A consumer faced with replacing a battery pack ten years down the road just might opt for a Jetta diesel! Bolivia is supposed to control 50% of the world's supply of lithium. Is that a stable situation?

    And I haven't even gotten around to the question over recharging infrastructure.

  •  
    4

    olpop

    07/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Dear Jim Letters: The Electric-Car Future

    Very true.

Please add your comment:

  1. You are currently: a Guest |
  2.  

Basic HTML tags that work in comments are: bold (<b></b>), italic (<i></i>), underline (<u></u>), and hyperlink (<a href></a)

advertisement
advertisement