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The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

By Chris Morrison | Nov 21, 2009

Drama is unfolding as the weekend begins, with the revelation that the University of East Anglia’s well-respected Climate Research Unit had its servers hacked and almost a decade’s worth of email revealed to the public.

Hidden away among thousands of boring, everyday messages are a few dozen that don’t look good for the CRU, including references to using a “trick” to make a graph display climate change a certain way, suggestions that information should be kept from public view, and some rather negative comments about climate change skeptics.

Some of those same skeptics, having combed through the emails, are more or less unanimously agreeing that the emails constitute the global warming scandal of the century, one that will quickly end the concept of anthropogenic global warming (AGW).

I’ve read a number of the emails myself (they’re all here), and I’m not seeing it. My take: A group of climate scientists, finding themselves opposed by people who reject or don’t understand their science, discuss how to present their data most favorably and strike out through political channels against their foes. And for the most part, it’s not a big deal.

Luckily, there’s an incredibly convenient rundown of the dirt at Bishop Hill, so readers can nip over and judge for themselves. The juicy bits include questionable statements by some top scientists, including Phil Jones, the CRU’s director, and Michael Mann, a scientist who is one of the primary contributors to RealClimate, probably the most respected pro-climate change blog.

What could be a big deal — the broader scientific community will have to be the judge — is the politicization, which really doesn’t have a place in good science. But most scientists, being all too aware of how much in-fighting is common within their own fields, probably won’t find much shocking about the emails.

Still, this is a scandal that’s just beginning, so it remains to be seen how far it travels. So far, the larger media outlets haven’t had much interesting to say. The good bits are all at blogs. On the pro-climate change side, the message is, “Nothing to see here, move along.” RealClimate makes the same point I did above, along with a few more. Here’s the relevant snippet:

More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.

Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’ discussions; Scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; Scientists resenting the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of this should be shocking.

On the other pole, here’s Andrew Bolt, a blogger at Australia’s Herald Sun:

…the 1079 emails and 72 documents seem indeed evidence of a scandal involving most of the most prominent scientists pushing the man-made warming theory - a scandal that is one of the greatest in modern science. I’ve been adding some of the most astonishing in updates below - emails suggesting conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more. If it is as it now seems, never again will “peer review” be used to shout down sceptics.

Again, my own take is that RealClimate’s response is a bit closer to the realms of reality; no grand conspiracy is actually in evidence, and the emails, while calling a few scientific points into question, don’t do much to discredit the greater body of work on AGW. But they certainly do cast a negative light on some of the scientists involved, notably CRU director Phil Jones, who I’d imagine may find himself short of a job soon.

And he probably should be fired, perhaps along with others. Yes, scientists have human flaws and foibles, but the leading scientists trying to prove AGW should be impeccable both in action and motive. The debate means too much for us to accept any less.

I will point out, however, that there’s a a double standard. Climate change skeptics have spent over a decade doing their best to politicize the science and feed misleading information to the public — remember the Global Climate Coalition?

I’ve seen a few suggestions already that there should be a counter-hack — that someone should obtain and release the private emails of skeptical scientists. Fair enough (if also illegal and morally reprehensible), but I can’t imagine that anyone would be surprised to find skeptics engaging in obfuscation or political manipulation.

Chris Morrison, a reporter on energy, renewables and climate change, is the former lead cleantech writer for VentureBeat. Follow him on Twitter.

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  •  
    1

    verycold

    11/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    So here is the problem with your apparent biased reporting. If you were a skeptic yourself, you would not be trying to shove these e-mails under the rug and instead be horrified that the pathetic mainstream media hasn't reported on this story. Once again they are behind the news. No surprise there.

    About 1 year ago there was small e-mail incident with a media giant that has supported the man made global warming theory. It was as I recall that a climate writer was urged to change an article by an outside pro-climate change group because it raised some questions about current data. I remember reading the e-mails exchanged between corporate heads and this pro climate change group which were blatantly threatening the writer's job stability if he didn't change his words. It was simply a matter of censoring by the global warming community to silence anybody with a differing opinion on climate change. If the e-mails hadn't gotten out nobody would have known about the behind the scenes dialogue that was horrible.

    Not long ago Al Gore talking to a conference had a man with an opposing view silenced by shutting down the mic and escorting him out of the room. The global warming community including Gore have suggested those standing in the way of taxing the heck out of our business community should be jailed because the threat is so real.

    I have blogged many times on this issue and have seen that same threatening language aimed at anybody suggesting man is not entirely responsible for global warming.

    Global warming has turned into a fight between the radical left and the conservatives that do not believe that man is responsible for global warming, or at least not nearly to the extent that the radical left believes. So this issue has indeed become political. This issue is all about keeping that supporting data that proves man is guilty and thus the government keeps the cash flowing. If that data proves anything less, or suggest inflated data, or inaccuracies, that money will dry up in a hurry. Al Gore with his enormous power that the people have given him unknowingly, need to keep the pressure on man/capitalism because global warming is a cash cow to him and his buddies.

    I know don't shoot the messenger, but it is hard to have any sort of respect for a man that has made 100 million touting this crisis, clamping down on opposing views, and buying a condo on Fisherman's Wharf in CA when he writes the seas will rise and crash over cities. See....a lot things make this look like yet another ponzi scheme.

  •  
    2

    dave@...

    11/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Can someone see exactly how many scientists were part of the scandal. I'm betting it's small compared to how many say AGW is real. I also do not see lots of corporate thieves getting their just when they get caught with their industry creating pollution etc. AGW is multi-faceted and the warming is part of the problem. I'm small business, and I say change is needed and it will create something everyone can get into, not just corporate board memeber, CEO's and stockholders protecting their riches.

  •  
    3

    exaviator

    11/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Chris, even as a VERY strong skeptic of the CO2-based AGW theory, I can step outside my POV and understand your perspective somewhat. People are people, and "scheming" is a part of any political movement.

    The problem is that political "scheming" is not what government-funded researchers are supposed to be doing. In particular, when their financial well-being and desire for political influence drives them to hide data and pervert the "peer review" process, there lies the problem.

    Recognizing that none of these processes are ever pure (I worked with DoD and NASA scientists in my early civilian career so I know how the game gets sullied), you simply cannot wear the cloak of moral certitude and do what these gentlemen have done. For example, the CO2 AGW perspective defends itself against people like Steve McIntyre by saying "he's not in peer-reviewed lierature." The words "peer-reviewed" are held up as a clear impramatur of factual purity. But at the same time Mann, Schmidt, Jones and others are...
    -- peer-reviewing EACH OTHER,
    -- participating as co-authors of the majority of papers on dendroclimatology and related fields,
    -- working diligently to influence who is permitted to participate as reviewers and editors,
    -- and even scheming to discredit major journals in the field. Steve CAN'T get peer-reviewed, and these guys want to be sure he won't. Now, Chris, that's just a racket, and surely you can see that.

    Now, is that of itself "illegal"? I guess not. "Scandalous"? Well, yes, I think so. Comparing it to the GCC is really kind of obtuse, don't you think? I mean, the GCC ran itself out of NAM offices for years; when I was reading their web site back in the late '90s I had no trouble understanding who was funding them. They represented advocacy. But in the case of East Anglia, CRU and Hadley, the implication is hands-off, "clean" science that is strictly seeking the truth about Our Planet. That turns out to be simply untrue. Even assuming the purest of motives, these guys were not testing a hypothesis -- they were advocating a point of view and building bulwarks against different findings, to the point of obfuscating data.

    Lobbyists do that, which is why you never introduce yourself as a lobbyist when you are engaged in public discussion. Nobody outside your camp trusts your "research", and that's the way the GCC was discredited. Now the sword cuts the other way as this group of lab-coated, "peer-reviewed" minds are shown to be pretty much no different, and try as you may to make the "so what" argument, it's going to hurt.

    Look, my problem is the same as I've said over and over: the science of CO2 AGW is weak, and it's driving actions and spending that distract from real, genuine, urgent environmental and energy tasks. What's worse is that it is couched in the language of religion, and that should scare thinking people more than anything else.

  •  
    4

    ljordan9

    11/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Man....'dude'...what emails were you reading when you wrote your article. These guys were outright colluding to lie whenever things did not go their way. I would not care what business this bunch was involved in, I wouldn't believe a thing they said.

    Not sure how you can blow this off as "...not a big deal." They were 'discussing' what the best way to lie might be and how to ruin people that disagreed with them. In my world that's a big deal.

    If this were a group of building contractors discussing how to hide the structural defects in their work...would it still not be a big deal to you...especially if they were talking about your house?

  •  
    5

    dmrdano

    11/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Extremists on both sides can be valuable, since they force us to make conscious decisions that weigh both cost and benefit. The problem is that if one side gets all the press and, worse yet, bases its arguments on dubious data, then someone has their thumb on the scale.

    I have often made the point that many of the actions global warming alarmists want us to take are doable and beneficial if they can be done without breaking the bank. For example, if my car gets more complete usage of the fuel, I spend less on gas. However, if I have to spend $3 to save $1, I fall behind.

  •  
    6

    exaviator

    11/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    dave, you make my point:

    "AGW is multi-faceted and the warming is part of the problem"

    If this is really about SCIENCE, Anthropgenic Global Warming IS about the deleterious effects of WARMING... PERIOD, and more specifically about WARMING driven by human-produced carbon dioxide. Finally, since all of the AGW-based policy is shaped by the Global Climate Models (GCMs), then those must be valid and reliable.

    What you do NOT get to do if this is about science:
    (1) When the GCMs prove grossly incorrect about the forcing of CO2, state that the cautionary possibilities are still valid reasons to believe their overall assessment -- accurate predictions can wait.
    (2) When ANY damaging weather occurs, state that the effects of Man on 'climate change' are clearly the driver.
    (3) When an investigator points out irrefutable statistical inconsistency in your data, mark him for retribution.
    Now, if this is about Faith, then by all means, ignore the above, and go after all of us "thieves". But please don't use the banner of science.

  •  
    7

    McColl

    11/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    I LOVE it when those who shed light on an impending environmental problem are branded as "EXTREMISTS" and "ALARMISTS". Time and time again these extremists and alarmists have been proven correct. Too bad interpretation of private e-mails will play into the hands of those who wish to discredit the scientific community. Imagine what creationists would do if they found private e-mails of scientists discussing evolution!

  •  
    8

    exaviator

    11/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    McColl:

    Time and again proven correct? Really? Were you thinking of the uncountable cancers caused by TMI that never showed up? Or maybe the coming man-made ice age that turned into man-made warming? Perhaps the "nuclear winter" that never befell the world after Saddam torched hundreds of working wells? Ah, now I know: the world that would starve once the population reached 4B in the 1980s...no... help me out here.

    Yes, there have been MANY travesties beset on this planet by humankind. Thank goodness insightful, visonary people alerted us to those, and we managed to mitigate or even reverse some, from the cleanup of fresh water bodies to the saving of key endangered species. We face many today, like depletion of fisheries and destructive land use. But from Carl Sagan to Paul Ehrlich we have been saddled with alarmism from people with varying agendas, ranging from a desire to be a media star to outright heinous intentions. The number is much bigger than you are likely willing to recognize. In every case, they at least distract us from useful activities; in the worst they create threats to political liberty.

    BTW, creationists and "religious" climate alarmists (NOT rational people who would argue genuine scientific conclusions but those who assert oddly spiritual overtones) have far more in common than most would admit.

  •  
    9

    iyer1945

    11/23/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Dear Friends,

    Is it science? These sort of things happen everywhere, only the degree and impact varies. If such scandals surface, it becomes a matter of integrity and honesty of people involved. You can't change what will not change.

    About the controversy itself. Will an independent team of scientists form a team and scan through available information and see what comes out. Of course, I am not forgetting ICCC, UNEP, OECD etc.
    Subramania Iyer

  •  
    10

    Chris Morrison

    11/24/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Exaviator: You have some points. Yeah, the GCC was not a group like the CRU; it was lobbyists. Yet those lobbyists still used the mantle of science, paid scientists to appear and speak the proscribed lines.

    To a large degree, the practice of parroting nonsense over and over as a response to science has continued to work for the skeptic camp. Witness the drivel about global cooling. And now the line that those who believe in climate change see it as "religion". Yeah, there's a core of people (hippies?) who have some kind of silly Mother Earth philosophy coloring their thinking, but there are obviously nutcases in plenty on either side.

    All your criticisms of the scientists' peer review process are true and good points -- but they still don't carry much water. Take a further look at the emails, and you'll find the scientists complaining to each other about not always getting published when they want to; I remember one in particular about Nature turning them down.

    We're talking about a group of about 10 people here. Not exactly a global conspiracy. Further, out of a decade worth of email, all that has been dredged up is a collusion to affect one small journal, a conversation about changing one graph (out of how many thousands the IPCC runs?) and a lot of griping about skeptics. Not exactly a motherload.

    Steve McIntyre probably can get published if he really wants, but he seems to be doing fine over at Climate Audit. His response to the graph manipulation is worth a look:
    http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7810

    To your point that the scientists pushing climate change need to hold up standards, I agree (and did in the post). There should be some fallout from the emails. I just doubt it will be the right kind of fallout.

  •  
    11

    ljordan9

    11/24/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Mr. Morrison,

    I can't believe you continue to dismiss this as no big deal.

    You say: "We're talking about a group of about 10 people here. Not exactly a global conspiracy. Further, out of a decade worth of email, all that has been dredged up is a collusion to affect one small journal, a conversation about changing one graph (out of how many thousands the IPCC runs?) and a lot of griping about skeptics. Not exactly a motherload."

    For starters these would not be just any "10" people but rather 10 very influential people...people talking about reaching out to the BBC and 'finding out what is going on there.' I am sure the vast majority of any 10 people have not the means or connections to even think like that let alone actually do it. These are 10 people who are talking about discrediting others rather than sticking to promoting their own arguments. Of course it is not a global conspiracy and that is one tactic you seem to be using (and many of your colleagues) to try to dismiss the seriousness of this. However, it is indeed a conspiracy; maybe not an illegal conspiracy but certainly a conspiracy none the less. These 10 folks talked in secret about ways to manipulate data and to discredit others. They planned and conspired to take certain actions- that is a conspiracy. Why it is so important for the media to say it is not a global conspiracy is a bit mystifying to me. In fact, I think anybody would be hard pressed to find an example of a real global conspiracy ever. People conspire all the time?some to do good and some to do harm. So get over the whole global conspiracy thing. It was a conspiracy of 10, end of discussion on the whole conspiracy thing.
    Seems to me that these folks were more concerned about discrediting those who offered arguments counter to theirs rather than proving they were right. Could that be because they understood they were not right and that their case was not as strong as they hoped? That general theme sure comes across in the 10 years worth of emails. That makes this more about them than it is about the science and the facts. Not exactly the kind of behavior one would hope to see from a scientist but the kind of behavior one would expect to see from a cultist.
    Out of a decade worth of emails these 10 people clearly demonstrate some very questionable ethics at best. These are 10 very smart people so I think it is reasonable to assume that they discussed much that they were unwilling to commit to paper. If this is what they were willing to commit to paper what must their "off the record discussions" have been like? I think it is reasonable to assume they were much more pointed and riddled with the same questionable ethics.
    Finally you dismiss the manipulation of the data to suit the graph as though it were just one trivial graph like so many other graphs just lost in the mix. That is not true. This is probably one of the most recognized graphs. In fact I would bet that many of those folks recently cited in a Pew poll (http://people-press.org/report/556/global-warming) as knowing little or nothing about cap and trade and global warming would recognize this graph. They did not just manipulate some trivial graph, so to dismiss it as you do is a bit disingenuous.

  •  
    12

    Chris Morrison

    11/24/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    ljordan9 -- You're right about the graph; for a couple years that particular graph was very important. I think the report authors long ago reaped what was sown in regards to that graph, though. They clearly picked data and a format that made the present-day warming look incredibly severe, when it plainly wasn't. I think quite a few people probably started their skepticism based on data that had clearly been presented to scare them.

    The problem with climate change theory is that the severe effects, if they're going to happen, probably won't be seen for a decade or two; the really bad stuff is even further out. The scientists and evangelists (like Al Gore, who I'm less than fond of) know that the average person doesn't think much about long-term consequences, so they've gone too far, IMO, toward trying to make the threat immediate, and built their own backlash in the process.

    The problem is that clever little tricks like that muddy the argument for climate change, which has plenty of data on its side. To me, the emails aren't an argument against climate change; they're an argument for enforced transparency in the science.

    Your "conspiracy of 10" point seems fine, although I could quibble on about how much of a conspiracy it really was. Again, all of these emails are from a 13 year period, and they've turned up how many schemes? Two or three?

    I'll add a point to yours, though -- there are the attempts to block FOIA requests, which I forgot to mention in my earlier comment. That would seem to have some legal ramifications (although I can tell you it doesn't seem uncommon in government circles; try getting info from the SEC sometime).

    You're right that I'm going to persist in calling it "not a big deal", but that phrase does tend to over-trivialize. It's not a small deal, either. But again, I think it's mostly an argument for putting more of the data and methods out in the open. Another climate scientist posted a good argument for that on Climate Audit:
    http://camirror.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/curry-on-the-credibility-of-climate-research/

  •  
    13

    dmrdano

    11/25/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    There is always a danger when people charge with just getting the facts (scientists) start trying to set policy, playing politician. This is a small but extremely influencial group of people who have lied about the facts to make it fit their policy. This reminds me of the untold number of people who have died of malaria directly due to the falsified data about DDT.

    By the way, I would love to see the emails between evolutionists. It would be informative to see how they reject their basic scientific methods so that they are not troubled by the holes in their theories.

  •  
    14

    clemsondave-23237407588442759037029962024865

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    I am not a scientist or an extremist on either side of this debate, but I'm afraid your bias is quite apparent here. To a "normal" person like myself, who feels there's probably something to climate change but knows that further research could eventually turn the tide either way, this is a huge deal. Science is supposed to be unbiased, objective, and most importantly, repeatable! This situation -- particularly the loss of the raw data discovered recently -- implies to me that prominent climate change "scientists" have not followed the most basic and fundamental rules of scientific research. How now can we "normal people" trust what they've been telling us for all these years?

  •  
    15

    McColl

    12/02/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    exaviator:
    Paul Ehrich's theory about population, resources and impending starvation for large populations are essentially correct even if his timing was off. The last I recall (infromation from a few years ago), about 60% of the earths primary productivity was being harnessed to feed, fuel and provide fibre for humanity, while at the same time, deserts were expanding and the popuation increasing. And if we all had the ability to think as critically as Carl Sagan...there would be no need for Scandals. Carl speculated about many things that most prople couldn't even fathom and many of these things came to be proven. Isn't it the truth that corporations just can't let people to change. There is too much money to be made by keeping the gas pedal to the floor even as the brick wall is just a breath away.
    Or maybe I'm wrong and we should all just dismiss what some of the most brilliant minds speculate, the patterns they see, the dots they connect and the bodies of evidence that flow from the reseach. Sometimes a theory is clearly wrong...the evidence comes in and its not supported. There will always be a hole here and there in a theory...its support over time becomes a body of evidence that may include some poor research...an unanticipated factor...a result that just doesn't fit the theory in every case. But by and large the the body of evidence tells people that there is something to this and that the theory must look quite a bit like what is being proposed.
    I guess its lucky that the aftermath of Three Mile Island didn't turn out like Chernobyl. One more thing...many writers above don't seem to differentiate among science as a body of evidence "the science" ; a scientist and conducting science (theorizing and collecting empiracle evidence). I'd say we're a generation or so from realizing what Paul was trying to warn us about...thats intelligent speculation based on physical laws, our population and what common sense tells me will happen when people don't get enough food. I also think global warming is a crappy term for whats happening; catastrophic destabilization of the earths climate would be more appropriate. See http://dougsplace.wordpress.com/page/2/

  •  
    16

    verycold

    12/03/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    There is no way the average citizen can embrace or reject the notion that there is global warming due to man's existence. We can look to the past and see without man warming and cooling has happened on its own.

    What bothers me a lot about this debate is that the timeframe of gathering information has been a very small window. I am nearing 60, and if in my lifetime the earth warmed, or cooled, it proves nothing except adding to the information base.

    I grew up in Jersey back in the 50s and 60s. I can remember snows that were amazing when it took big equipment to plow us out. I can remember being off school for weeks. I remember one Xmas when the temps dove into the minus figures and froze all the pipes in our home and caused a flood. That house was built in 1690 and so I am assuming that winter was well above the norm. Then again I can remember many late winters taking off my sock to wade in the snow puddles imagining spring was just around the corner.

    Many years later I can remember living in Asheville, NC when the temps dove so low that everything stopped. We had no power for about a week due to ice and freezing temps. We put a kerosene heater in the basement and stayed huddled in a corner. I can remember several winters of snow up to our eyeballs.

    I have lived all over this country and have tons of memories of extreme weather like hurricanes, tornadoes, hail, etc. It all means not much unless viewed over hundreds of years and even then that is just a snapshot.

    One thing I am certain of. Mother nature adapts. Where I live presently we have been in and out of drought for about 10 years now. I have seen everything shrivel. I have seen the leaves come off the trees in late summer. I have seen mass acorn production or pine cone production that was nothing short of amazing. When I moved here, about 50 pine seedlings stood tall. They were so small I ran a few over when trying to mow around them. Today, 10 years later, I would say they are 20 ft high. They look hardy, full, and frankly mother nature's best work. They have survived and adapted to every sort of extreme.

    The strong will survive and weak will fail. Man is arrogant to think he can control how nature reacts to climate changes. We would be nuts to think that man has no influence on climate, but to what extent and what are we willing and able to do about it, is a very different matter.

  •  
    17

    exaviator

    12/06/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    McColl, I don't mean to make this into our own private debating forum, but I can't let your note go unanswered.

    Though he is a brilliant entymologyst and a tireless researcher, Ehrich was PROFOUNDLY wrong, with analytical methods based on zero understanding of economic behaviors and clear, proven demographics as a function of wealth. His work went so far as to call for the addition of "temporary sterilants" to public water supplies, with antidotes to be provided by government authorities to "appropriate" families --- does this really sound "essentially right"?

    As for Sagan, I don't care how smart he was. Einstein was brilliant, too, but he frequently became lost walking home from the lecture hall and office in Princeton. Sagan got "lost", too. He applied at best vague principals to his "nuclear winter" concept, and no amount of sympathetic modeling or analysis was ever able to bear it out; the Gulf War fires clearly proved it false.

    The point is: we are all fallible, genuises included, when the siren song of fame and power calls. Admirers and sycophants amplify incorrect or poorly-conceived theories, and the great minds hear only their own echo.

    Should we "all just dismiss what some of the most brilliant minds speculate, the patterns they see, the dots they connect and the bodies of evidence that flow from the reseach"? No. But they have no special privilege to avoid the crucible of analysis and criticism. Speculation is just that: speculation, regardless of the speculator's IQ. And patterns and evidence -- imagined, "seen", or discovered -- demand verification. A real scientist would expect no less.

  •  
    18

    McColl

    12/06/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    exaviator,
    I agree with you science must be verified and as for your mention of fallibility, I should have added that some people can't differntiate between science and the scientist who is after all...a person. I enjoyed our exchange and

  •  
    19

    exaviator

    12/07/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    McColl:
    Peace, my friend. Ditto on the pleasant interchange.

    I hasten to add that, while an ardent CO2 AGW skeptic, I am NOT of the camp that believes mankind "cannot ruin the earth." I still own my 7 year old ULEV car (Mazda Proege 5) because I believe it is a good balance between the best fuel consumption I can get vs. the environmental impact of manufacturing a new automobile. (It helps that I spend >50% of my time traveling for business, mind you.) Though my wife and I are blessed to be in a high earning bracket, we raised three kids in a 1600 sq ft home, and have WAY more than our share of energy saving devices, ranging from our light bulb choices to our homemade air-to-air heat exchanger for the dryer.

    So I value this blue-green orb as much as anyone, and I just want us to work on the things that will give us the best payoff.

  •  
    20

    ArtM72

    12/31/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    So, how's this for a compromise? We just agree to do what we can to fix the problem. Here's the rationale:

    - We stipulate carbon dioxide and methane are greenhouse gasses. No scientific question there.
    - We stipulate that for whatever reason, anthroprogenic or not, that average global temperatures are rising. Four independent international scientific organizations agree on the rise, for whatever the reason. No finger pointing.
    - We stipulate such global temperatue rise will induce changes in weather and sea levels at enormous damage to our infrastructure. Hard to dispute as well.

    Accepting the above, we can get past the cause of this problem and agree that it makes sense to do what we can to reduce the rate of global temperature rise. The best approach identified so far is to reduce CO2 and methane emissions. Let's get on with it.

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    21

    verycold

    01/01/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    ArtM72 - the blame on man is part of the equation and unfortunately can't be muted. It is a big part of the call by directing blame in the direction of those that will be taxed. It fuels the urgency as well. The blaming of man sets the ball in motion because there is a criminal in mind. Gore and others speak of locking people and certainly silencing them if they so not embrace his agenda. This is where the "creepy" aspect rears its ugly head.

    If you took a survey of the general public and asked if carbon is good or bad for the environment, overwhelmingly I suspect that people would see that gas as evil. We have been taught to think like that. The only dissent from most is whether man is totally responsible or not. Do most people know that vapor is the largest component of greenhouse gas? Do they know how beneficial carbon is? Do they really understand greenhouse gases at all?

    I feel like our government never tries to inform and educate, but instead lets certain special interest groups take hold of our society and then laws are constructed around poorly thought out theories and terrible solutions. Good intentions get mixed with money schemes and finally corruption takes place. This wouldn't happen if just basic education about vital issues took place to begin with. We are seeing that same response to the health care issue. There is no long term thinking going on just who can benefit short term and how much.

    We are sadly lacking quality leaders that can see the big picture and know when they are being scammed.

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    22

    exaviator

    01/01/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    ArtM, there are many out here who would not accept this compromise, me included.

    "- We stipulate carbon dioxide and methane are greenhouse gasses. No scientific question there." Yes, and there the agreement ends.

    "- We stipulate that for whatever reason, anthroprogenic or not, that average global temperatures are rising. Four independent international scientific organizations agree on the rise, for whatever the reason. No finger pointing." Actually, there is significant and educated disagreement on whether or not the earth is warming with respect to recent historical variation. Aside from indisputable warming since the Little Ice Age, the data is just not defendable. Right now, you can compare NASA Goddard (GISS, home of James "we're all gonna die" Hansen) and NASA MODIS NEO maps for November temp anomalies and find two COMPLETELY different data sets, with differences well beyond the most rudimentary of instrument or collection error. We really have no idea that general global warming since the LIA is significant or even continuing.

    "- We stipulate such global temperature rise will induce changes in weather and sea levels at enormous damage to our infrastructure. Hard to dispute as well." Again, I'd say no. Assuming the earth were in fact warming (and I do not, but will here for the sake of argument), are there not substantial BENEFITS to weight against the disdavantages? Since the LIA alone we have seen an enormous improvement in the ability to produce food (notwithstanding major breakthroughs in agriscience, of course). Add in the increased vegetative productivity measured since the rise in atmospheric CO2 from 280 to 380ppm over the last century, and increased CO2 and higher temps have been a boon for most life forms on the planet. As for infrastructure, humankind is a creative species and can deal with these issues over time. This all assumes the earth is measureably warming past MWP temps, which cannot be proven.

    "Accepting the above, we can get past the cause of this problem and agree that it makes sense to do what we can to reduce the rate of global temperature rise. The best approach identified so far is to reduce CO2 and methane emissions. Let's get on with it." Actually, there is no proof that CO2 and methane are in fact the most significant Anthropogenic drivers of warming. Very modest research into warming effects of land use (albedo) and CFCs has shown shockingly strong correlation -- perhaps an order of magnitude more significant than Anthropogenic CO2 and CH4 emissions. And this is the biggest tragedy: that growing and relatively peaceful societies will be taxed for the use of environmentally acceptable (albeit imperfect) fuels while the real, solvable drivers will be ignored.

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    23

    ArtM72

    01/04/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Exaviator -

    I looked for information on Goddard, Modus and NEO. The best I could do was find that NASA's Goddard manages three near Earth orbiting (NEO) satellites monitoring environmental parameters. One of which, Terra, which has been flying for 10 years, carries the MODIS instrument. Given there is a continuing effort of instrumentation calibration, where is this data set of temperature anomolies dislocation disproving global warming?

    Better yet, given these are data streams freely available to researchers, who are the experts that have generated the data analysis leading to the self evident conclusion you suggest?

    Data anamolies, while interesting, rarely overcome perponderance of evidence. Unfortunately, it is the 'man bites dog' story that generates the ad dollars and provides public focus, and perponderence of news coverage somehow substitutes for perponderence of evidence. So goes the debate.

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    24

    exaviator

    01/04/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    ArtM --

    Here are data sources...
    for GISS (you will need to input November 2009 for the map)
    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/maps/

    for MODIS (again, input Nov 2009 data point)
    http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/GlobalMaps/view.php?d1=MOD11C1_M_LSTDA#


    What you will see is:
    Africa: Below average on NEO map, above average on GISS.

    Australia: Below average in the West on NEO map, above average across the country on GISS map.

    Russia: Significantly greater cold anomalies over a much wider area on NEO than GISS.

    India: Below average NEO, above average GISS.

    Middle East: Most of the region colder than average NEO, warmer GISS.

    Europe: Average-to-slightly-above average NEO, SIGNIFICANTLY above average GISS.

    Greenland: COMPLETE LANDMASS colder than average NEO, most of the island warmer GISS.


    And these differences are NOWHERE CLOSE to a standard deviation or two. There are 10deg F or more differences over multi-10^3km2 areas. The point here is not that they prove or disprove AGW -- it's that EGREGIOUSLY inconsistent data like this is being used to "confirm" 0.4degC per DECADE. That the same US Gov't instrument (as you pointed out, with a long and well-established service record) can be used by two .gov agencies to arrive at such vastly different data sets should give pause. When "homogenization" methods are used to adjust several degrees, such as in Australia, where the Darwin station adjustments equal SIX degrees over 30 years, there is no rational way that these numbers can be used to show meaningful temperature record, warmer or colder, on a 4degC per CENTURY basis.

    If I gave the impression that I would claim a "self-evident" conclusion on warming/cooling beyond an increase since the LIA, my apologies (and I really mean that -- no sarcasm intended). I meant that the data being used to present the case don't hold up.

    Finally, while "weather isn't climate", the extraordinary departure from model projections over several consecutive years, with HUGE failures in recent months, also begs the question of GCM usefulness. It's not appropriate to bring that up as we were really discussing data integrity, but surely this is an issue of some note to advocates of AGW CO2 theories.

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    25

    ArtM72

    01/04/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Exaviagtor -

    Thanks for the links. Take a look at the "base" periods from which the anomalies were calculated. For the GISS data set the anomalies were calculated against the average for 1951 to 1980. For the NEO data the anomalies were calculated against the average the same monthly period from 2000 - 2008.

    If global warming since the 1950s were indicated by this set of graphics the anomalies would be greater with the GISS data set which would show up very orange. Guess what? It does!

    With respect to the current NEO comparisons with the 2000-2008 periodaverages I can only relate to what a solar observatory scientist at the McDonald Observatory told me in October: During solar minimums in the normal 11 year cycle Earth temperatures tend to be lower. We are at the end of a solar minimum which has lasted longer and generated fewer sunspots than solar scientists have ever recorded. This might be reason for the apparent pause in average temperature rises. Taking 11 year moving averages to compensate for the solar cycle there is no question temps are on the rise.

    So, bottom line, the reason why the graphs were different was because the base periods of measurement were different, and the differences observed support the premise of significant temperature rise across the globe since the 1950-1980 period.

    Time to rethink?

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    26

    exaviator

    01/05/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    (Apologies to the uninterested, but Art and I are having fun here)

    Art: I understand the difference between base measurements. I intentionally omitted it from discussion because I had already been verbose enough. But since you mention it, reference this avaerage global temperature graph 1880-present.

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png

    Normally I wouldn't use Wikipedia, but on AGW they tend to use data most persuasive of warming, and true to form they use the VERY steep "corrected" GISS record. As you can see, the anomaly difference 1950 to 2008 amounts to "only" 0.6degC. This is almost an order of magnitude lower than the large areas of significant (6-8degF) disparity --- covering more than 30% of global land surface, according to my calibrated eye --- between MODIS and GISS (admittedly approximate by interpolating the color scale).

    The delta is much too large to explain by base difference, and calls into question the levels of precision claimed in modelling and prediction methods.

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    27

    ArtM72

    01/05/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Gee, I explain to you the reason the graphics were different and you go to the Wiki is biased and 'my calibrated eye' defenses. Whether Wiki or GISS are land or land and sea temperatures I can't comment other than you will always see higher temperature swings over the central continental regionsm,especially in very dry areas.

    I could suggest you do a simple support or reject anti global warming seach on Google, then look at the URLs. Supporters typically have websites identifyable as scientific or educational institutions. Opposition sites are almost always political or independent. That's not entirely surprising, nor is this "great debate". 40% of Americans believe in evolution, 40% creationism and 20% don't know the difference. Hard for science to achieve any clear victories in this culture.

    Back to temperature trends. Here's an interesting piece of research by some Aussies looking at three independent data sets. Enjoy.

    http://www.aussmc.org/documents/waiting-for-global-cooling.pdf

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    28

    exaviator

    01/05/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Art, last time for me, I promise. I wasn't posting a "defense", honest. The point is purely arithmetical. Maybe I said it poorly (not being sarcastic; I am frequently obtuse), so I'll try again:

    (1) The two charts show very large differences in temperature (6-8degF or more, judging by the color scale because I did not download the data -- admittedly lazy) over very large areas of land mass.

    (2) While they are INDEED comparing to different temporal baselines (absolutely no disagreement with you), the actual global mean temperature difference in those baseline averages is MUCH smaller (only about 0.9 degF.) Thus, again, the reason that the two maps -- which get the same raw data from the same source -- are so hugely disparate isn't clear. Yet one of those data sets (GISS in particular) is portrayed as 3 or more significant digits accurate, and has been used to show precise measurement and projection of warming. Seriously, it's not a "defense" of my POV at all: if the claim is (as originally stated) "global temperatures are rising...no finger pointing", the fact that data which is supposed to prove that is questionable, and the metadata behind it is not explainable makes the claim weak. I don't really need to "defend" anything: The data and metadata need to be defensible, and statistical methods need to hold water. This is just an example of many where they do not.

    (3) Yes, you are 100% correct that there will be wider swings over the dryer, less forested areas. The point is that we are comparing the EXACT same November data against two multi-year AVERAGES that are actually within less than a degree of each other, and yet the maps show deltas as high as 10degF or more from one another.

    (4) I used an AGW-friendly source for the global mean temp history just so we wouldn't quibble over it, and linked to Wiki 'cause it's easy to find. Honestly, though, you can go to GISS site,

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata/GLB.Ts.txt

    plot it, and get the same curve --- I haven't done it, but I trust that even though this was plotted by an advocacy group ("The Global Warming Art Project") it's probably OK. The Wiki curve was just easier for me to grab. That way I could link us to an easy look at the WIDEST difference between 1950 and 2008 (not, say, the uncorrected GISS data or UAH, which show a much smaller difference and therefore might make it look like I was trying to bias the point.)

    (4) I don't want to spend time on an "accept" POV, like RealClimate, or "reject", like ClimateAudit, except to get links to original papers or, better yet, actual data so I can look at them through a bit less filtration. There is so much data you can tap into that doesn't have a paywall, I prefer to stay out of the opinion loop if I can. With tools as simple as Excel you can make your own plots quickly to see the view yourself. The paper you linked (thanks) has links to .txt files that can be quickly plotted --- as I can't seem to get to sleep tonight I think I'll poke around at those and check their work!! Seriously, I have seen constructions of Darwin station data that had some loony corrections so I'd like to play with this. In the meantime, just so I can end on a fun note, recall the last paragraph of the paper, which was written in April of '08, tossed in a casual look at ENSO patterns and supposed we might "...see global temperatures approach and then exceed the records set in the past ten years." Again, this modelling accuracy business... but I'll stop now. Cheers.

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    29

    ArtM72

    01/06/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Exaviator -

    As an ex aviator myself (principally sailplanes) I too know when it is time to land.

    My final point would be it is hard to win a fight against a prejudice, even when that prejudice is well intentioned. I believe the data discrepencies you cite are based upon one set (global averages) including ship and bouey data, the other set only land. Satellite data is calibrated against thermometers on the ground so it is likely good. I have no clue as to the appropriate significant figures for the temperature data, but believe there are plenty of scientists who do.

    Best of luck for a happy, healthy and prosperous 2010. And always remember, especially if you return to flying, "maintaineth thine airspeed lest the earth rise up and smite thee".

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    30

    praveendalvi

    01/27/10 | Report as spam

    RE: The Great Climate Change Scandal of 2009

    Is it necessary that all the time some one makes a mistake you have to penalise them, how many times our governments make mistakes, so how many of them have been penalised till today.

    About the climate change, still lot of things are under our control, still lot could be done, I am an Indian, and I have seen those days where life seemed hell, today things have changed drastically, everyone makes mistakes. Be kind to them. At the end of the don't forget that they are working for noble cause.

    Ciao..!!

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