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More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

By Ken Terry | Sep 7, 2009

Robert Reich, the former Secretary of Labor in the Clinton Administration, is a pretty reliable barometer of Democratic opinion. So his blog post “3 Things Obama Must Demand From Congress on Health Care” undoubtedly represents the thinking of many Democrats. The minimum qualifications for “meaningful” reform, in Reich’s view, include universal coverage, a tax on the wealthy to help pay for reform, and, of course, a public plan “option.”

Reich supports the public option because he believes that it is “critical for lowering health-care costs.” It would do this, he says, by creating more competition among insurance companies and by reducing payments to providers.

Unfortunately, Reich’s assumptions do not withstand scrutiny. Even if a robust public plan did increase competition in the insurance market, it would not reduce the cost of insurance significantly. The reason is that health plans are pitted against powerful providers, including hospitals and large physician specialty groups, that bargain for the highest rates they can get. As a result, in markets where there are many insurers, costs may be higher than in other markets where there are fewer plans.

One example is Milwaukee, where there is no dominant insurer. Because the health plans are relatively weak, local hospitals and specialists do quite well financially, says Bruce Kruger, executive vice president of the Milwaukee County Medical Society. Milwaukee specialists, he says, “won’t take anything under 200 percent of [the] Medicare [fee schedule] from a health plan. What they’re getting is even higher than that.” Plans in Chicago, where Kruger previously worked, are paying physicians at about 110 percent of Medicare, he says.

Reich points out that in 36 states, three or fewer insurers account for 65 percent of the insurance market. The AMA has protested this increasing concentration of health plans because, in many cases, it has led to lower reimbursement of physicians. This is a problem for doctors, but if they get paid less, costs go down for employers and consumers. The same is true of hospitals. Conversely, as the number of plans in a market increases, so do provider payments. So, while increased competition would force insurers to lower premiums to some extent, that reduction would be offset by the enhanced bargaining power of providers.

As for Reich’s contention that a public plan will be able to negotiate lower rates with drug companies and providers, he’s clearly imagining a public option patterned after Medicare. “Commercial insurers now pay about 30 [percent] higher rates to providers than the government pays through Medicare, because Medicare has the scale to get those lower rates. A nationwide public option could get similar savings.”

What Reich seems to be forgetting is that we’re talking about a public option, not a single-payer system like Medicare. Medicare does not bargain with providers, it sets their rates. And the reason why providers accept those rates is that Medicare covers everyone over 65 years old. In contrast, none of the current legislative proposals requires all individuals or small businesses to buy insurance through a public option. The CBO has estimated that the strongest public plan now being proposed in Congress would cover no more than 10 million people by 2019. At a local market level, how much bargaining power would this yield? Very little.

The Democrats should not let ideology get in the way of health care reform. If they cannot explain in detail why a public option is crucial to cost control, they should move on to other ideas that offer a better chance of success.

Ken Terry, a former senior editor at Medical Economics Magazine, is the author of the book Rx For Health Care Reform. follow all BNET Healthcare posts on Twitter.

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  • The Public Option - pass this on

    PharmaGossip - 70 days 18 hours ago

    Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich explains what a public option for healthcare coverage really means for working people. We thank Jacob Kornbluth for directing and producing the Robert Reich interview portion of this piece. Pass it on to everyone you know. We can't let the insurance companies decide who gets care and who doesn't....

  • MarketWatch First Take: Public option beaten back, but not dead

    MarketWatch - 52 days 12 hours 29 minutes ago

    The Senate Finance Committee has rejected two amendments that would establish a government-sponsored health insurance plan to compete against private insurers, but the twin votes in the committee on Tuesday don't necessarily mean the final bill won't have the public option

  • Careful What You Wish For

    The Health Care Blog - 142 days 20 hours 52 minutes ago

    By THE INCIDENTAL ECONOMISTOn the left are those who would like health reform to include a strong public plan, one that could negotiate large provider discounts, driving down the cost of medical care. On the right are those who think health insurance should be provided only privately. Im neither left nor right. I consider myself a realist...

  • In Most Markets, a Few Health Insurers Dominate

    BusinessWeek - 121 days 50 minutes ago

    Ignagni: The industry lobbyist says a public plan would raise costs Scott J. Ferrell/Congressional Quarterly/Getty Images By Catherine Arnst Browse the BusinessWeek Archive The insurance industry is up in arms over congressional proposals to create a publicly financed competitor in an effort to bring down health-care costs. That may be because...

  • Centrists and the public option

    The Atlantic - 25 days 8 hours 34 minutes ago

    EJ Dionne asks a good question: why don't centrists approve of the public option? It doesn't involve a government takeover of the health-care system. The idea is that only consumers who want to enroll in a government-run health plan would do so. Anyone who preferred private insurance could get it. The public option also uses government...

 
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  •  
    1

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/08/09 | Report as spam

    Focus on Law of Supply & Demand in Health Care

    If my memory serves me correctly, Economics 101 states as demand goes down, supply goes up and prices go down. So by reducing demand, this suggests prices will go down. The way to reduce demand is to focus on behaviors as 70% of all health care costs are behaviorally driven. Given that 90% of all heath care costs are generated by 10% of the population, by being proactive through behaviors this will keep many of the 90 becoming in the 10% group.

    Again, by being reactive (reform is a reactive position) instead of proactive, the federal government will do for health care what it did for education. Since 1959 education costs have increased 4 times (inflation adjusted) while not improving results 4 times. In many cases, the education results are worse than 40 years ago. Leanne Hoagland-Smith

  •  
    2

    verycold

    09/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    All these years those students majoring in the math and sciences has dwindled. I can see now that statistic is really becoming a curse because little understanding of numbers is being seen with this debate. Yikes it really is scary. Instead the issue has just become emotional which will sink us long-term.

    I agree about how to change behavior, but we also can't forget that baby boomers are just beginning to retire and thus will begin their need to use their heathcare benefits. What really concerns me and apparently not this WH is who is going to pay for all the elderly that need nursing home care? Medicare never paid for that need, only skilled care where is quite different. Nursing homes are extremely expensive and will financially ruin most families. Why is the WH ignoring this huge potential problem?

    I have asked repeatedly to scores of health care experts and bloggers if anybody can show me when the government competing with the private sector brought down costs. Shown me an example. So far I have had NO takers. The only example I can think of is the postal service that competes with the private sector and obviously failing to compete at all since they are billions in the hole. Are postal prices coming down? I don't think so.....

  •  
    3

    slwrel

    09/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    I negotiate with physiscians and hospitals for a living and you have it about right that more competition will not reduce costs. In Michigan, where I work, a dominant carrier has kept physician pricing down while other payers are forced to pay more. But that dominant carrier has 65% of the commercial market, which acts as a brake on physician costs. Of course, if you look at utilization, you will likely find (at least in the eastern part of the state) it higher. Those of us in the business link the high use to low reimbursements. In the western part of the state, payments are higher but use is lower. In the end, premiuum costs aren't that much lower in western Michigan, despite the lower use.

    Thus I would agree with you--more competition won't bring about lower prices for physicians or hospitals. Only a single payer system will do that, and apparently, that's a non-starter.

    I do wish both sides of the debate at least started with a basic understanding of how health insurance and provider markets operated. At least then we would be talking about the right things in the right ways. The only way to address health care and health insurance to have a national, rational conversation. The yelling and screaming, political power plays and pretense will only lead to more of the same--a failed system that costs to much, covers too few and creates relatively poor outcomes.

    slwrel

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    4

    cbouchard

    09/08/09 | Report as spam

    The Great White Hoax

    As one who "benefits" from socialized health care in the Great White North (Toronto, to be exact), I find myself distastefully agreeing with the Dems on this one. Having a public option for those who can't afford private insurance -- one that they pay into minimally, I'd suggest, to reduce the tax burden on the rest of Americans -- is the best way to a two-tiered system that is also likely to reduce private costs. A truly universal plan for all basic benefits results in a reduced quality of care for everyone (just ask the Commies -- or us Canucks), which also ends up being more not less expensive for everyone. Americans would never consider taking away a "private option" in another sphere like education or housing, and they shouldn't with healthcare either.

    In theory I believe a public option would reduce the price of private healthcare in the short run since the insurance companies would be competing against a cheaper substitute (Economics 101). On the other hand, with the decreased profits these companies will experience (from losing customers to the public option and a reduced demand for emergency services), they may respond by increasing rates in the long run in order to avoid downsizing.

  •  
    5

    gsprague

    09/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    Obviously from the tone of various postings, Healthcare has become a very emotionally charged as well as politically charged issue. I would also have to admit to felling a little overwhelmed with the amount of information / issues surrounding the proposed reform, and the feeling of being under informed or maybe lightly informed or perhaps misinformed...

    That aside, I believe the gist of Mr. Terry's article is that increased competition (more plans from which to choose) tends to provide the upper hand to providers, as mutliple payors "compete" to provide acceptable coverage (providers have the option to refuse or accept some plans). Conversely, the article indicates less competition (fewer payors from which to choose) tends to provide the upper hand to payors (providers have more limited options for refusing certain plans since the field of options is narrowed).

    Interesting point, and it would seem to refute the argument for a public option providing benefit from increased competition.

    To that I would respectfully add my personal opinion that a public option wouldn't "compete" with private plans, it would be dominant because of its ability to set its rates via closely related government entity, Medicare, which has rate setting authority. As far as I know, no private insurer has such power.

    It seems to me, the public option is more like a means of (additional) regulation, rather than fostering competition.

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    6

    verycold

    09/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    The bill was written by over 1,000 lobbyists. So when reps are unable to talk intelligently about the bill it is because they didn't write the language. It was inserted by those lobbyists that obviously have a particular vested interest. So as an example, why would unions care about a public option when they already have the best insurance money can buy? It is because of the language in the bill that allows 10 billion to be designated to unions for the losses they incurred during the bankrupt proceedings. So all those concessions weren't really permanent concessions.

    Why isn't tort reform considered and instead off the table? I mean why are PIs exempt from any sort of reform?

    We can look north at Canada and see the "single pay" isn't providing coverage for everybody. Anybody see the city clerk in a rural town with the box in the closet that picks through names of people wanting to see a doctor? They have one doctor that plans to quit because a requirement is to add so many names to their patient list each month and apparently the doctor is overwhelmed.

    We can look at TN Care, and Mass Care and other than signing up more folks for insurance the costs continue to escalate.

    We have not gotten our head around this issue yet no matter what the president thinks. The issue needs to be done in installments and see how the first installment does first with respect to lowering costs.

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    7

    temurphy

    09/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    There is one instrument in the U.S. health care system that is the driving force behind our high costs - the doctor's ordering pen! The utilization of health care resources and their respective prices escalate with every stroke of the pen. The insurance companies can wave their swords, but until the pen is put aside, our costs will not be controlled. Costs are our problem and we should focus on this first before we dismantle our system. A provider market driven by quality and efficiency will substantially impact our costs, make health care more affordable, and significantly enhance access. temurphy

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    8

    slccom

    09/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    I find it fascinating that the biggest "solution" to health care costs advocated by many people is the reduction in use of health care. I would also love to know where "70% behaviorally driven" comes from. The last I checked, the mortality rate for human beings is 100%. Regardless of how "healthy" people live, they WILL DIE.

    I guess that once you get sick, you should just resign yourself to your fate and quit trying to get medical help. So, folks, you want a knee replacement because each step makes you cry with pain? Do what is best for the country and just suck it up until you die! You get clinical depression? Do everyone a favor and just kill yourself. Got an infection? Wrap up your affairs and crawl into bed and die. That will really cut costs!

    You DO realize that all your suggestions say just that, don't you? I assume that since you are so passionate about cutting healthcare costs and putting aside that doctor's pen, you'll walk the walk (or crawl the crawl, depending) in your own personal lives.

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    9

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    As to the 70% figure, you can check out Safeway, DuPont & Black&Decker who have reduced health care costs, increased the overall health of their organization both in people and profit using these statistics provided through medical research. Additionally research proves that being proactive through blood pressure monitoring, etc does not significantly reduce health care costs. (New England Journal of Medicine)

    For example, obesity is for the most part all about behaviors. I choose what I eat, I choose how to or not to exercise. Obesity in many cases is the fulcrum (tipping point) for diabetes and cardiac diseases. Hence just by becoming healthier through better eating, other diseases can be reduced thus reducing the costs of health care.

    If you increase healthy behaviors, then logically you will reduce health care costs (visits to the doctor, ER room, etc.) This reduction allows those who are sick because of events outside of their control access to medical help and helps to reduce the strain on health care providers.


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    10

    verycold

    09/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    slccom - your post is intentionally emotional and not the least bit helpful. Here is an example that might help you understand what the other poster is talking about.

    A person here in my town that I know very well has spent thousands trying to get thin. He has spent yours and mine money with no avail. The reason being is that he lives on beef and fattening foods. Due to his excessive weight gain over the years he no longer walks much at all. So he either drives a car or drives his tractor around the farm or an ATV machine. His family is obese. I have seen him lose weight when professionally controlled. I mean large amounts of weight. He just refuses to stay the course and accept his limitations. If he lost weight he could walk again. He can't walk because he is obese. See how it goes. He will be the patient that will suck the system dry all because he refuses to make permanent life changes. He has passed on his bad habits to his children that are equally obese. I am many years his senior, have fought off breast cancer, and work my own farm and ride and train horses. I am old, but yes I keep moving through the pain because you either use it or lose it like my neighbor.

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    11

    slccom

    09/09/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    Does it occur to you that obesity is NOT simply a matter of how much you eat? Do you think that this neighbor just wakes up after the large loss of weight and says, well, I really prefer being fat? Has it occurred to you that he might be fighting a bacteria in his gut that makes him store calories? Of a genotype that was highly beneficial in times of starvation but detrimental now? Has it occurred to you that perhaps eating 600 calories a day is actually leaving him feeling like he is starving all the time? Or that he is on medication that makes him gain weight? Or that he might have depression on his family tree?

    Maybe having a judgmental neighbor isn't helping, either...

    The 70% figure saying that Safeway cut their health care costs doesn't say anything about a whole population. There is something called the "healthy worker" effect that really makes using that population inappropriate for making judgments across the population.

    Incidentally, while I see that figure cited repeatedly, I have not found any peer-reviewed studies supporting it. Again, I have no reason to believe that figure. It is conceivable that during a short time span, there is some truth to it. Over a lifetime, absolutely none.

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    12

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/10/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    Very cold - You are quite right. I have family members who have diabetes. They continue to eat the wrong foods and put on weight. Since I know that diabetes runs in my family and I am borderline hypoglycemic, I am careful not to eat what I know will be damaging to my health. Also because of being a sickly child, I truly dislike needles and do not want to engage in any behaviors that will eventually cause me to give myself shots. Again, this all 100% about behaviors.

    slccom - Being skeptical of statistics is a good thing. Yet having common sense should suggest controlling your behaviors is far more effective than dealing with what you cannot control.

    Research abounds about obesity and how poor eating habits coupled with a lack of exercise (attitudes of thought based upon beliefs) are the main drivers of obesity. The gentleman that Very Cold cited is living in what I call the Wimpy state: I will pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today. Unfortunately, far too many individuals fail to take personal responsibility for their behaviors and then end up wanting the quick fix to make it all better especially when someone else has to pay for it.

    We all make judgments every day we wake up. Making an observation based upon observed behaviors has been part of mankind's history and is the basis for much of science. The farmer cited can lose weight, but chooses not to continue to engage in those behaviors that keep weight off.

    Believe me, I would love to have a Dairy Queen sundae or Baskin Robbins ice cream cone every day. However, I know to do so will result in weight gain and move me potentially closer to becoming a diabetic. This is truly about behaviors. You may continue to deny that behaviors are one of the critical drivers to reducing health care costs (not health care access another issue) and thus we will agree to disagree.

  •  
    13

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/11/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    Heard several interesting statistics at a luncheon where a local CEO for a not for profit health care system (religious based).

    1. Profits for the current year are .9% as filed with federal agencies. Past annual profits ranged from 2 to 3%.
    2. 75% of their revenue yield negative profits from Medicare reimbursement to slow pays to no pays
    3. 25% of their revenue must support 100% of their operating costs.
    4. 80% of their lawsuits never yield a single dime to either party

    The biggest figure was about defensive medicine due to the real fear of lawsuits. He cited research figures that suggest $200 billion is spent in delivering defensive medicine and personally shared he feels that figure is low. Example: Order the CT scan just in case you might miss something and be sued.

    Tort reform needs to be part of the overall of this discussion and system reform.

  •  
    14

    verycold

    09/11/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    Coach I have heard the same stats you are using. Recently there was a hospital in MO, small town, citing what you posted. They have decided this. They can no longer cut anymore personnel or costs. They are going to take out a loan to pay for upfront the change in their record keeping that they believe will save them a lot of money. The government will reimburse but won't pay to make those changes. It is either this course or they will have to shut down.

    Obesity is occurring at an alarming rate and that is why big government is targeting soda and other fattening foods. I do think soda is a huge problem. I gave that up 20 years ago and only drink ginger ale if I am sick. I sure am not a saint either. I frequently will take a day and just eat normally and write down what I am eating. It is very revealing and makes me curb some bad habits that easily come back.

    The point to my example of which I know personally, is to point out that often the behavior of the parent is passed on to the children and thus the cycle continues. I do think some people are meant to be big. I think Oprah is one of them and yet she has spent her entire life trying to get small. I saw her personally in the ladies room at a function when she was small, and she looked strange. She needed more weight. It is one thing to be big, quite another to be obese. We are seeing that with so many children today which is definitely tied to lack of exercise and diet.

  •  
    15

    slccom

    09/12/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    I find it fascinating that first you talk about how Oprah's body is designed to be big, and she looked bad when trying to be "thin," then you claim that the parents pass on behavior, implying that that is solely responsible for the obesity. They also pass on these things called "genes," which are responsible for the size a person is and is supposed to be.

    Which is it?

    Try reading Gina Kolata's "Rethinking Thin."

    From Publishers Weekly
    Starred Review. New York Times reporter Kolata may be the best writer around covering the science of health. Here she offers an eye-opening book that questions all our received wisdom about why we get fat and the health hazards of those extra pounds. In chapters equally entertaining and dismaying, Kolata (Flu) traces the history of dieting fads back to the 19th century; discusses our changing ideas about the ideal body (thinner and thinner); and, most importantly, explains how genetic and biochemical understanding has (at least among researchers) replaced the view of obesity as a lack of self-control. Most dramatic is Kolata's recounting of Jeff Friedman's groundbreaking search at Rockefeller University for the "satiety factor," a hormone he called leptin that tells our brains when we're full. The science alternates with moving chapters in which Kolata follows a group of people in a weight-loss study who are trying desperately to get thin?a quest that, as Kolata makes increasingly clear is sadly futile. In her final?and perhaps most surprising?chapter, Kolata blasts those in the obesity industry?such as Jenny Craig and academic obesity research centers?who are invested in promoting the idea that overweight is unhealthy and diet and exercise are effective despite a raft of evidence to the contrary. This book will change your thinking about weight, whether you struggle with it or not. (May)
    Copyright ? Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

    From Booklist
    *Starred Review* When New York Times science writer Kolata took an unbiased look at society's war on fatness, she found that the spoils of the conflict fatten the pockets of a multibillion-dollar dieting industry, while most ever-hopeful yet hapless dieters lose only money. Why, then, do we still repeat a mantra--"eat less and exercise more"--that has failed dieters for 2,000 years? Why, in diet study after diet study, do chubby participants consistently fail to reach their target weights? And why do the majority of dieters end up regaining most of their hard-lost weight, or regaining and then exceeding it? Following up on participants in a two-year clinical weight-loss study comparing the overall efficacies of the Atkins diet and a highly regarded low-calorie, low-fat diet opened Kolata's eyes to the plight of millions who can't seem to measure down to today's weight ideals. The experience led her to examine the millennia-old history of humanity's battle against the bulge. She interviewed several credentialed authorities, and she cites sound scientific evidence that calls in question the productiveness of common weight-loss methods. Her report reveals well-documented intelligence certain to annoy those segments of society and commerce that stubbornly cling to the ignis fatuus that all one needs to be thin is willpower. Donna Chavez
    Copyright ? American Library Association. All rights reserved

    Maybe, just maybe, what you "know" just ain't so!

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    16

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    The original U.S. food pyramid is the same way they fatten cows.

    Remember we are products of an agrarian culture far longer than of an industrial and technology culture. Look at the portions of food for most restaurants.

    We are conditioned to eat everything on our plates because to waste is a "sin." Here is the family behavior in the mix of obesity.

    Genes are part of the mix as well as the aging process. When we know that to be true, then we can adjust our behaviors to reflect that knowledge. Changing behaviors will not keep 100% of the people healthy, however it will positively impact everyone to some degree.

    One of our best friends is a doctor. He has been ill only a couple of times in the last 15 years. Why because he is constantly washing his hands. Again, this is a behavior.

    The real issue is not dieting, but rather living a healthy life. When you tell your brain No, the brain does not hear no. This is why I use positive Belief statements or what others call Positive Affirmation statements.

    One of my best friends came from a family with what she called a "fat gene." She became heavy decided that was not healthy and started using a visualization affirmation where she told her mind she was 125# vivacious, healthy, active women. She has kept her weight off for 25 years.

    I read a research study back in the 1960's talking about reducing weight through higher proteins (meats) and less carbs. Way before Dr. Atkins diet.

    Moderation is the key through our behaviors. Push yourself away from the table you first feel full. Smaller meals with greater frequency are better.

    The challenge is not to become overweight in the first place. If you have the fat gene, then it is even more important to take care of yourself.

    Finally, what is the result of all this discussion on health care reform? Healthier individuals When people are healthier, there are fewer demands on the health care system. The side benefits would be better access to health care when needed and lower costs.

  •  
    17

    slccom

    09/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    And you can be a healthy individual and still be "overweight."

  •  
    18

    verycold

    09/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    slccom - you are extremely defensive on this issue.

    You most certainly can be "overweight" and still be healthy. One only needs to the new US Tennis champion crowed last night. Kimmie is big and yet very conditioned. We need to try to stick to the weight that God intended for us. My example of O was that she has tried for years to be something she never will be. She is meant to be bigger than she is happy with. That is an image problem she is fighting in her head.

    Several years ago while getting a physical, my doctor commented that I was fairly lean. I just about fell off the table. "Who are you kidding" I asked? He replied that compared to what he sees I am rather thin. If that is true how utterly sad because I am not lean. We have some Nordic types in this neck of the woods that look fantastic. However I should mention they are the ones even into their 70s on the ski slopes working at keeping their trim figures. They also eat minimally compared to most Americans. Genetics play a part in the equation, but that doesn't mean those predisposed to largeness need to give in to their food cravings and jeopardizing their health.

    Coach - sound reasoning - good post.

    Back to the health care issue....

    Obama is promising lower premium costs for all because of the public plan and upward pressure on the insurance companies. At the moment, insurance companies net profit margins are about 3 percent less than even the grocery store chains which is about 6 percent. It is being recommended that instead of reimbursement of the avg. 80 percent, the government will reimburse about 65 percent with the burden fallen further on the patient. We know that government plans to lower reimbursement of medicare costs to doctors and hospitals through the Advantage plan which is where the savings to pay for the public plan is suppose to come from. So who will pick up the tab for that difference?

    1 in 7 people in CA with insurance are unable to pay their medical obligations now. That obligation is the out of pocket tab plus any co-pays.

    I see nothing offered at this time that will bring down premium costs for those currently insured, or bring down medical costs nationwide for anybody. It is a very complex issue that is being dealt with by penning a bill too large and vague to address the many issues that contribute to higher costs.

    The government should be required first to target the fraud in Medicare and fix that first. Come back to us when that is done and we can talk again.

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    19

    slccom

    09/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    I'm not trying to be defensive. I'm trying to get you to see that what you think you know isn't necessarily so. People can be very healthy, live healthy lifestyles, and still be overweight. It is NOT just a matter of "willpower," and until that mindset is changed, people who are overweight are at grave risk of becoming pariahs and denied health care by the self-righteous.

  •  
    20

    verycold

    09/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    I think all you really need to do is look around the grocery store and see so many today no longer walking, but riding around in scooters. The "fat" epidemic is exploding. All of the people in those scooters are very overweight. They are passing that lifestyle choice on to their children. Just stand at the register and count all the obese people. Better yet, look inside their carts and see the crap they plan to eat. It is scary. Really scary. Did you know that the average person only has a buying range of approx 100 items they buy each week? Can you imagine? Only 100 items out of thousands? I shopped professionally for a restaurant for about 4 years. What I couldn't buy from our suppliers I had to get locally. Clerks would comment all the time about what was in my cart. They don't know any of the veggies by sight. Please, don't get me started. Listen I know how hard it is to eat right. I am by no means a poster child for that. However what chub I have on this old body is my fault alone. I am in physically good shape in that I have a rigorous life living on a farm. I go until I can't stand up each day.

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    21

    slccom

    09/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    I give up.

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    22

    dkberry

    09/17/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    verycold... appreciate yr posts here and on other items. I'm near exactly of the same mindset as you.

    DEM leadership chooses to ignore that its CMS crafted FFS reimbursement engine is the single most detrimental component in the US healthcare system... causes cost-shifting to private plans... underpayment and late payments to providers cause capacity cuts when providers drop Medicare or Tricare beneficiaries... and can generally be credited with causing the primary care shortage.

    Language but little discussion about an orientation on wellness and strengthening primary care to deliver... but nothing that represents a solution because it fails to address let alone identify the cause.

    I want health care to be between me ... the customer and the doctor the provider. Just the 2 of us. I want health care to be like another service business... our local dry cleaner. You want a shirt dry cleaned? Cost is $1.89. That's what you pay and that's what I pay. Price is similar all over town... we select our dry cleaner because of their quality ... speed of service ... or its location.

    Everything in nature is simple. The complexity in health care is caused by special interests, most notably the government and our politicians. It's unnatural.

    DEMS just want to tax those that don't vote Democratic to pay for health care for those that do vote Democratic after gaining campaign promises.

    Finally, DEMS agree its not 47mil Americans who are uninsured... and that after dropping the non-citizens, uninsured over 65 and under 18, and those making over $75k ... that the number is between 18 - 30mil depending on how its counted. Even Census says the number of insured is undercounted when they view the discrepancy between their government provided insurance and what CMS shows.

    Unions want more expensive health care for companies who aren't union shops to make them less competitive versus those businesses populated with overpaid union workers.

    I would support interstate purchase of health care coverage so those stuck in states that prescribe all sorts of minimum coverage requirements can get out from under having to pay for coverage they neither want or need but that DEMS have voted in to support their special interests.

    Agree 100% on your views of TennCare, MassCare, and Canada's single payer system too.

  •  
    23

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    Slccom - I would have preferred you to have opened your mind instead of giving up. Yes, there are healthy people who are overweight. Yet, would it not be better to be healthier and weigh less? And more importantly if people choose to be overweight, why should others pay for those choices when it involves additional health care costs. Note: I am not talking about those who have genetic disorders, but approximately 90% of the population who are overweight because of free will.

    In rereading your posts, my sense is that you are a compassionate person and that belief is a good thing until it begins to enable behaviors.

    This discussion suggests that to change health care costs, we must first look at the beliefs driving the behaviors creating the results. Unfortunately, far too many people are looking through the wrong lens or filter or as I have written before looking at the wrong end of the horse as well as the wrong horse.

  •  
    24

    slccom

    09/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    As soon as you decide that behaviors are pulled out of thin air and not affected by such things as untreated and undertreated mental illness, bacterial infections in the gut that make additional calories retained, and by drugs that affect metabolism and appetite (including, I might point out, chemotherapeutic drugs for treating cancer), you and everyone else who piously denounces the "fat pigs with grocery carts full of junk food" are making a judgment that you are absolutely NOT entitled to make.

    Not than anyone here used the phrase "fat pigs," but I see it often. It is one of the more polite terms I see. My POINT which people are missing is that weight management is NOT simply a matter of pushing away from the table. So talking about "enabling" behaviors, sneering at people with the SYMPTOM of obesity in the grocery store because they might be buying supplies for their kid's birthday party, making nasty comments, etc. is actually BEHAVIOR THAT YOU CHOOSE that simply makes life even more difficult, possibly leading them to overeat.

    To my knowledge, NOBODY has looked at obese and overweight people and identified the often subtle health issues leading their SYMPTOM of overweight, treatedthem fully and effectively, and looked at what the long-term effect on their weight and health expenses will be. Until that happens, a whole lot of people in their arrogant ignorance are making wholly unjustified assumptions and making life a lot more difficult for complete strangers.

    Furthermore, please point out a single disease "associated with" obesity that thin people don't get, too. The confusion between association and causation is rampant. Every single disease, including diabetes, is also "associated with" thinness. So deciding that someone's weight SYMPTOM means that they are incurring medical costs that somehow come out of YOUR pocket is irrational, mean and totally unjustified.

  •  
    25

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/19/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    Unfortunately, some considered that attempting to connect bad behaviors with some bad mental condition is the primary and in some cases only solution. Maybe this is why so many are seeking the quick fix.

    There is something called cause and affect. If someone who is healthy chooses to stay overweight, this does put them later on in life at risk for other diseases. What makes more sense is to avoid being put in that position. This is a common sense approach.

    In the research I have found and having numerous colleagues who are doctors and nurses, the data suggests that 10% of the population is responsible for 90% of the health care costs. Logic suggests once this 10% is no longer part of the population pool that the health care costs would be equally distributed. That is not the case because the population is dynamic and another new 10% fill in the gaps.

    So this leads to the question how can we prevent the great majority of that 90% from becoming part of the 10%. Of course some will due to having health issues beyond their control. Again, looking at behaviors is one viable solution. Is it the only one? Absolutely not, but it is the one solution that those who are healthy can be a part of and it is a very cheap solution.

    What does it take to walk 30 minutes extra a day?
    What does it take to drink 8 glasses of water a day?
    What does it take to avoid foods that you know cause you to put on weight?
    What does it take to eat 10% less per day?
    What does it take to eat 4 to 5 smaller meals than 3 big ones?

    Of course some will continue to make excuses for the majority (51%) of those who choose not to be healthy blaming it on something beyond their control. However, from my readings more and more people are realizing that they must accept responsibility for their actions. This is a minority of people, but a growing minority.



  •  
    26

    verycold

    09/19/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    I have up soda years ago and replaced that habit with water. I confess it was not an easy habit to break since I LOVE orange soda. A couple times a year I spoil myself and buy a six pack of orange soda and enjoy every sip. I like my sweets. I like veggies too but it is just easier to pick up something quick to eat rather than stir fry some veggies. So I instead I bake muffins with all sorts of veggies in them, reduce the sugar, butter, etc., and still have a yummy treat. It isn't perfect but it is at headed in the right direction. I don't know a soul that drinks water like I do. I have tried to get my friends doing it but have failed.

    I exercise hours every day since I own a farm. It is go go go all day long.

    I ate out last night and failed the smaller portion test and ate everything on my plate. It is a childhood habit drilled into me and I just can't break it. I can't stand waste.

    The biggest problem is what I am doing right now. I am sitting at the computer. Our youth will continue to get fat without considerably more exercise.

    Ask yourselves this. When is the last time you saw youth cutting grass with a push mower, shoveling snow, weeding a garden, trimming the yard, raking leaves to name a few necessary chores? I rarely see kids on bikes anymore, let alone walking. We have tons of lakes where I live which should be jam backed with kids fishing. I would have died for such gorgeous lakes. I rarely see anybody. I live on one of the nicest bike trails anywhere in the US. I never see young kids on that trail.

    I do see kids on the soccer field because that is organized activity which is just about the only activity left for kids today.

    I recently looked at some property that my husband and I had to literally wade through 8 ft tall corn to get to a beautiful stream running through the property. I had on my waders. We were both like kids wanting to see how deep it was, what was living in that stream, and where did it go. Fantastic. NO KIDS in sight. Less than 1 mile from town.

    What have we done to our youth???

  •  
    27

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/20/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    In Parade magazine this Sunday (Sept. 20) there was this interesting fact: Adults put on 2 pounds for every year. Walking 2,000 additional steps per day will keep those 2 pounds from being put on.

    Agree that technology has potentially helped hand to eye coordination and some spatial capabilities, but has dramatically reduced physical activity. The WI (Wee) electronic game does have an exercise component. Yet, does it not make more sense to walk, ride a bicycle or mow the lawn? Saves a lot of dollars.

    Yes it is hard to avoid conditioning. That is why I encourage my clients to keep with them positive belief statements or what others call positive affirmation statements. This action helps to reprogram the brain to counter act conditioning.

    At least, verycold, you are aware and awareness is the first step to change.

  •  
    28

    rbray7@...

    10/05/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs


    The argument that providing more options, therefore more choice, medical costs to clients will not be reduced is straight out of the Insurance Giant's Playbook.

    Market forces must respond to downwards pressure, because to hold on to high costs when the same service is available elsewhere much cheaper is to opt for fossilisation, becoming insignificant, and bankruptcy.

    US Health-care has a lot to learn, and its first lesson is that shutting out people from affordable healthcare runs directly counter to the Hippocratic Oath.

  •  
    29

    dkberry

    10/06/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    Despite the Obama Administration?s and other proponent assertions... there is no evidence that their public plan proposal will curb health insurance prices or force private plans to provide broader coverage provisions. In fact, there is clear evidence to the contrary.

    - Trumping Robert Reich... Ken Thomas is correct. The most aggressive public plan covering an estimated 10million people in 2019? will lack the local market presence to command price advantage from local providers.

    -Proponents have not provided facts or accounting of their own to back up their proposal choosing to shoot at CBO pricing that conflicts with their views and those of academics and legislators who have shown to be repeatedly unskilled in budgeting and market pricing principles.

    -Most dramatic examples of the failure of both Federal and state government health care insurance and insurance exchange initiatives include Tricare... the health care coverage plan for U.S. military and their families and Health Insurance Plan of California (later PacAdvantage) ?an insurance exchange especially geared for small businesses which because of adverse selection which ?became a victim of the death spiral, and closed in 2006?.

    -Tricare administered by DoD and DHHS/CMS links Tricare and Medicare applying Medicare?s reimbursement rates factored lower to account for active duty military?s health status above the typical Medicare beneficiary but fails to account for the health condition of families and retirees. Result: cuts in Tricare reimbursement to providers below even Medicare rates has resulted in large numbers of civilian providers refusing to take Tricare and have left especially rural areas of the country without Tricare-registered providers to meet the needs of beneficiaries who have no other source of health care coverage.

    -PacAdvantage as noted failed because it chose to not establish risk ratings in its premiums in order to offer coverage to all regardless of their health status. As the cost of providing services to higher risk enrollees the cost to mainly young, healthy enrollees skyrocketed above local private plan options. When these younger enrollees defected PacAdvantage crashed in 2006 after 10 years of existence. (I acknowledge there is a difference between a public plan and an insurance exchange but the Obama Administration?s and its favored academic proponent?s failure to acknowledge the necessity to risk manage spells disaster on a national scale for their initiatives).

    -Reich (whose past association with failed health care initiatives should prompt questions as to his supposed authority) identifies ?36 states, three or fewer insurers account for 65 percent of the insurance market? but then fails to recognize that the few plans in these markets can command lower physician and hospital reimbursement there is no truth to his assertion that ?costs go down for employers and consumers? because while physician and hospital costs reimbursed by the plans do not necessarily result in lower coverage premiums.

    -Health insurance industry has the lowest profit margin 4.5% of all types of insurance. Lower than homeowners insurance and lower than automobile insurance policies.

    -Opening the borders and permitting employers and consumers to purchase health care insurance plans across state lines may result in less market power by the few local plans but allow buyers to purchase plans that better meet their needs. That?s competition.

    Administration and DEM lawmakers say they can pay for health care reform by upwards of $500billion in savings in Medicare fraud, waste, and abuse across 10 years. Clearly proponents must know where this FWA is or else how would they know its amount?

    I propose that lawmakers enact the changes necessary to make these savings first before ?cash flowing? these savings to pay for reform. It is not that I don?t believe that there is room to improve Medicare?s effectiveness and efficiency... it is just that they have NEVER run a business in their lives and have ZERO track record in ever bringing in a program at or under cost. I suspect as do all Medicare beneficiaries and all of the providers who currently provide services reimbursed by Medicare that what the legislators, their 28-yo committee staff and interns members, and their 45-yo academic advisors ... all of whom live inside the Washington Beltway ... intend to do is just slice reimbursements to providers ... forcing more providers to drop their Medicare patients.
    Since such a large proportion of Medicare beneficiaries vote GOP ... DEMS don?t see a downside at the ballot box to trying to enact such legislation. Unlike the stimulus bill and other legislation DEMS have pushed through without discussion in order to benefit their constituents. DEMS pushing health care changes and Medicare rate cut effective dates out to 2012 or beyond in order to hide them from those who will be affected may backfire given the amount of attention they have attracted.

    -Cutting reimbursements to cardiologists and oncology surgeons in 2010 when these are the services that seniors need today in order to help balance Medicare's books just portends what more the DEMS have in mind.

    As for rbray7?s final comment: If you are accusing health care providers for ?shutting out people from affordable healthcare? ... I suggest you consider that Medicare, Tricare, and Medicaid reimburse providers between 80% and 53% of what private carriers do. The result of the government failing to properly and timely pay its bills ... forcing many providers to cost shift these losses to private plans who pay their bills ... has nearly destroyed the primary care sector and has resulted in wholesale defection of all providers from seeing beneficiaries of these government-run programs. Are we to believe that a public plan would not be allowed to cover losses through payments from the general fund... when that is exactly how Medicare is managed today?

    As Ken Thomas concludes ... ?Democrats should not let ideology get in the way of health care reform. If they cannot explain in detail why a public option is crucial to cost control, they should move on to other ideas that offer a better chance of success?.

    DISCLOSURE. I am not employed or reimbursed by any health care insurance or health care provider entity. I am retired US military with a Masters degree in Management, an MBA, and a graduate certifate in Health Services Administration.

  •  
    30

    Coach-Lee-428

    10/07/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    May I just add - well written and thank you, D.K. Berry.

  •  
    31

    www.goodscool.com

    10/10/09 | Report as spam

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    32

    mp5player

    10/24/09 | Report as spam

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  •  
    33

    youaretheonly1

    11/17/09 | Report as spam

    RE: More Insurance Competition Will Not Reduce Costs

    On the overweight issue.. Absolutely, genetics are a proponent! But if everyone ate healthy, fresh, portion controled meals, and participated in vigorous (relative to age and capability) exercise, we as a country would need less medical intervention and would lead healthier lives. End of story!

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