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NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

By Ken Terry | Sep 24, 2009

If you’re interested in a really informed discussion about the key issues in slowing  healthcare cost growth, I recommend a video roundtable discussion on the website of The New England Journal of Medicine. The moderator is Atul Gawande, MD, a Harvard professor and renowned author. The panelists, all leading health economists, include Elliott Fisher, MD, of Dartmouth, Jonathan Gruber of MIT, and Meredith Rosenthal of Harvard.

The consensus of the panel is that, without cost control, healthcare reform will fall flat on its face in the long run. As Rosenthal puts it, if the current rate of cost increase continues, we can cover fewer people and provide them with poorer benefits. And Gruber points out that unless health spending is limited, the federal government will either go bankrupt or raise taxes by a shocking amount.

On the other hand, the panelists strongly support the coverage expansion proposed in the current reform bills. That’s do-able now and is “our moral obligation,” Gruber says, while the battle for cost control is a longer-run part of reform. Rosenthal agrees that “coverage is critical.” But the government should ask something in return from industry sectors, like the drug and insurance companies, that stand to benefit from the extra business they will receive from the newly insured, she says.

So how do we control costs? The consensus is that we need to restructure the healthcare delivery system while educating the public about the difference between necessary and unnecessary care, with help from comparative effectiveness research. “Until we can tell patients they can’t have everything they want, we can’t control costs,” asserts Gruber.

Fisher, an expert on geographical variations in Medicare spending, doesn’t believe that care must be rationed in a system that already spends so much. In markets where health spending is lower, he notes, people are not aware of rationing. “Most of the savings we need will come from reorganizing the delivery system, not from reducing beneficial care.”

Fisher points out that the pending Congressional bills all include demonstration projects to test delivery-system reform ideas such as accountable care organizations (ACOs), medical homes, and payment bundling. Of course, it’s a long way from pilots to actually implementing these concepts, and Gruber points out it could take a couple of years before any legislation promoting ACOs, for example, would be feasible. Even then, he says, there’s a risk that these large, global-risk-taking organizations would ignite the same kind of backlash that HMOs did in the ‘90s.

Whatever form delivery reform takes-and whether or not it involves transitional components such as bundling, as Rosenthal suggests-the panelists agree that it must include payment reform, because the current fee-for-service system rewards volume rather than value. In the long run, this would require providers to take financial responsibility for care. But even within the fee-for-service paradigm, Fisher points out, we could do better. For example, he notes, not paying physicians to take time to have a lengthy conversation with a heart patient may mean that he or she is sent to the ER and then admitted to the hospital instead of being taken care of at home, when that might be feasible.

All in all, this is a very satisfying and lively discussion that underlines the importance of health reform while pointing to the need to continue it beyond the current measures under consideration.

Ken Terry, a former senior editor at Medical Economics Magazine, is the author of the book Rx For Health Care Reform. follow all BNET Healthcare posts on Twitter.

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  •  
    1

    verycold

    09/25/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    I will go listen.

    One of the reasons that patients ask for so much is because they have no idea what the costs of anything regarding medical care.

    So as an example, years ago when I was dealing with excruciating pain in my lower back due to a bulging disk, my doctor made plans for me to go in and have cortisone shots into the area around that disk. I mean how much could that cost? I found out it cost 900.00 for each shot. The shot worked fabulously for the first 24 hrs. and then it wore off. So that was 900 dollars down the drain. The only other medical option was to have surgery which most surgeons were not thrilled about doing at that time. I decided to look for an "alternative" approach which came to me in an article written by Dr. Bob Arnot. The article was about who should have back surgery. He explained my condition in the article and what was needed most for any possibility of repair was increased blood supply to that area. I began a serious step aerobics regime that I stayed faithful to for many months. The result was significant repair. That was 20 years ago and since then I have been riding horses every day with minimal pain.

    My point is that there is a lack of commonsense with much of the medical care today. We aren't getting to root causes, but instead just covering up the problem. If somebody's knee is always hurting, and they weight 250 lbs. losing weight would be the first step to reduce the impact. It would be cheaper to pay for 6 mos. of gym membership for that patient, or pay for 6 mos. of Jenny Craig than do surgery, or prescribe meds.

  •  
    2

    Ken Terry

    09/25/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    Amen. Several studies comparing conservative treatment for
    lower back pain to surgery have shown that in most cases, the
    conservative treatment works just as well or better. But primary-
    care physicians need to be reimbursed to take the time to
    explain these issues to patients. As I take it, that was Dr.
    Fisher's point in regard to heart patients.

  •  
    3

    PaulScott59

    09/25/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    Any efforts to reform healthcare on the macro level will always prove to be futile while making no one happy.

    Mr. Obama, while certainly well intentioned, can only fail. It is simply impossible to measure any success in whatever "reforms" he may enact.

    A more sensible approach is for patients and physicians to be much more judicious in their healthcare choices. But this is difficult to quantify and as such, impossible to legislate.

    Perhaps simple legislation requiring clearer communication of up frontfees and costs as well as options would help consumers find more competitive health care solutions.

  •  
    4

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/25/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    The one element not being discussed is personal accountability specific to health care. Years ago, people were far more health conscious because availability was limited and cost was high. With the advent of employee health insurance programs now being a given coupled with the increase factor of defensive medicine (also not part of the discussion), people no longer have any reason to be accountable for their unhealthy behaviors.

    Change usually fails from the outside in and this program is 100% outside in driven. Look to the dismal failure of Prohibition.

    Until change is internally driven, then and only then will sustainability happen.

  •  
    5

    Ruddie01

    09/25/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    Well said Coach-Lee-428. I wrote on this website many months ago warning America against adopting the use of NICE, National Institute for Clinical Excellence as used in the UK. This unelected government quango decides who receives treatment and who does not, it costs the UK taxpayer millions of pounds a year, money that should be spent on providing health care to the most needy in our society. We don't have health insurance, instead we pay National Insurance, deducted from our salaries, to cover our National Health Service. Those who don't work through choice and live on Social Security have as much, if not more rights to the NHS as they are classed as poor. There-in lies the biggest fault! This section of our population are the biggest drain on resources, there is no money left in the pot for life prolonging medicines for those who have contributed to the system all their working lives. These people who have no work ethic and no intention of ever getting a job have free prescriptions for things like Aspirin, Laxatives, E45 Cream for Eczema, treatment for obesity the NHS even provides them with Viagra, the latest bill for the cost of free prescriptions I was able to obtain is dated 2007 and the overall total cost of free presciptions was, in GB pounds 8,196,832,400. Obviously our elderly population (over 70 years old) account for quite a large amount of that bill, but they are the people who would have died of shame had they not been able to provide for their families when they were younger and many are suffering from work related illnesses. Whilst the idle poor have absolutely no reason to feel responsible for their health they certainly wont feel responsible for the lack of funds for those in our society who would die without treatment. Our government then introduces NICE, if you have a tattoo and you have fallen out of love with the person whose name you had inked into your skin you can have it removed on the NHS, if you are a drug addict then you can expect to receive methadone on the NHS, if you want a child and can't conceive then you are entitled to IVF treatment on the NHS, if you are obese then you can have a stomach band fitted on the NHS or if you don't want to do that you can be prescibed Statins and continue your existence in the same way so as not to inconvenience you, God forbid you have to take any steps to improve your health, you just go to the doctor and complain about the depression and an appointment will be made for you to "talk to someone", who will then involve Social Services, you've now become a client not a patient and as more agencies get involved the more support you have to assist you in living the idle life you've chosen, all for free don't forget as you've been far too busy procreating you didn't have time to look for a job.

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    6

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/26/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    Ruddie01 - Thanks for the affirmation. At least within the US, I believe this action started many years ago with Pres. Wilson, compounded by Roosevelt and those after him. The U.S. is a Republic, but unfortunately the shift to believing it is a democracy has created these and many more consequences from a stronger federal government (not what our founding fathers wanted) to weaker state governments.

    One of the results of this shift is demonstrated through less personal accountability. For individual merit has been denigrated unless they (the government and those who believe in wealth distribution which has now worked its way into health care) want and need the fruits of your merits (taxes).

  •  
    7

    Ruddie01

    09/26/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    Coach-Lee-428 I agree with all that has been posted on this topic and have said in past postings that America, whilst being at the fore-front of innovative medicine and research, providing health care for those who cannot afford it has proved an unachievable target through the years and not something that former incumbent presidents wanted to address. The NHS was set up in 1948 for access to medical care "at the point of need", the population were recovering from the effects of the second world war and everyone was doing their bit to rebuild our shattered country, the moral fibre and work ethic were very different to that of today, if you didn't work you didn't eat.

    After 12 years of this Labour government the unemployed (for that read unemployable) are literally destroying the very foundation of our health service.

    From the age of 15 my husband worked at the local coal mine, he trained and became a mechanical fitter, he never dropped a shift, loved his job and was very conscious of his health as he spent so much of his time underground therefore delighted in the chance to breathe fresh air and enjoyed all the seasons. At the age of 56 (still working at the coal mine) he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer, since that day I have fought and won to get him the expensive drugs he needs, he still pays his taxes on his personal pension making him a contributing member of society, to reduce the strain on the NHS I learned how to dialyse him at home, I work over 50 hours a week then come home and dialyse him, why I do this is easy, I love him and he is my responsibility. The NHS governed by NICE say he has to achieve a QALY (Quality Adjusted Life Year) to receive expensive medication, that means that for every 30,00 GB pound spent his cost to the NHS will lessen for every 12 months of quality of life! There is no known cause of this disease, he certainly didn't live a life without care as he wouldn't have been able to get to 56 with only the very minor ailments that affect us all from time to time, however his QALY is exactly the same as that of a man 30 years younger with acne. Absolutely absurd. That is why it is imperative for you, Coach-Lee-428, verycold and PaulScott59 to follow with the greatest of interest what is happening in America. For health care reform to work it has to be equitable, with personal accountability and responsibility, something the NHS has lost.

  •  
    8

    verycold

    09/27/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    What a great thread. I sure wish millions would read these posts. Although the stories are often hard to read because they are so honest and often emotional, it is these stories that need to be heard.

    What worries me a lot is what plans the X and Y generation have in place now to care for baby boomers that will need nursing home care. It was so different when I was young. Many families had their grandparents living with them. It was typical that the children shared those parents rotating mom and dad. That scenario has changed a lot with families choosing to send their parents to a nursing home instead of having them at home. It was easier when families lived on farms since there is so opportunity for everybody to contribute.

    Some years ago, I lived next door to a man about 82 that still lived alone. His wife had died 30 years earlier. Yes the interior of the home was old, messy, and frankly somewhat scary, but it was fine for him. He loved that home, the view of the lake and loved chatting. My family helped him whenever possible, like cutting down old limbs, shoveling snow, watering plants his wife had upstairs that he no longer could walk to. However it wasn't one way. I loved his historical perspective. He had great stories of the town we lived in at that time. I have had the privilege several times in my life to live by the elderly and found the experience so much fun. I have wonderful memories of their generosity like baking pies and cakes, helping with my many gardens. We need to see neighbors stepping up and looking out for everybody including our children.

    Obama may be well intentioned, but for such a smart man he seems so willing to just get any bill signed and then move on to the next issue without really solving the health care issue.

    I agree at the core of our demise is a lack of personal responsibility. Now that the government has allowed so many to depend on them for every need, how in the world can expect to ever wean these dependents from mother government. Who will be brave enough to speak the truth? I think this is why Obama insist that income redistribution is the answer. So if you can raise up the bottom they will learn to take care of themselves. Really?

  •  
    9

    Coach-Lee-428

    09/28/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    The goal of the U.S. government beginning in the late 1920's was never to create personal accountability but to create a politicalocracy to replace the theorcracy and other "ocracies" that segregated those in power from those not in power and to have those not in power pay for those in power. Actually this goal probably started far earlier, but that is another discussion.

    To speak the truth means you are do not know what the truth is. As I have posted in other bloggs - The Emperor's New Clothes" are alive and thriving in America.

  •  
    10

    Ruddie01

    09/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    Coach-Lee-428 you speak of "ocracies", here in the UK we have quangos (quasi-autonomous non-governmental organisations) if ever there was a contractual get out clause by a government then these unelected bodies are the epitome of such a clause. Costing billions of taxpayers money to do the jobs civil servants are already highly paid to do. Not only do our sick and/or elderly have to meet a criteria set by NICE they then have to satisfy a local quango that goes by the title of Primary Care Trust, depending on how much money is in the budget and what sort of treatment you are requiring, so you can bet your bottom dollar your Grandma who is 78 and requiring a hip replacement because she has spent years working on the factory floor and bringing up the family, will come well down the line to the local "Billy the Kid" who needs corrective surgery to a hand injury caused by putting his hand through glass whilst trying to burgle the supermarket! So I think our Prime Minister knew the same tailor.

    verycold thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my post, I would like to add one or two points to clarify my position. Unlike America we were very slow in making health insurance available in the UK, when it was only the very wealthy could afford it. Over the years it has become financially accessible to middle class Britain but with riders that meant had you worked for certain industries then your monthly premiums would be just that, at a premium, also lots of companies introduced company health insurance schemes which assisted with private health care, people could see the benefit of private health insurance BUT (the big but) felt they should be refunded the part of their national insurance portion used to fund the NHS. I can see things from both points but personally feel, should I be in a position not to need the services of the NHS, I would feel it a dereliction of duty not to contribute and only further depleting resources, however I feel people like me would and could be of benefit to cost cutting programs without denying our terminally ill, chronically sick and (those in our society who gave so much to preserve the freedoms we enjoy today)the elderly the right to life, all for a fraction of the cost of quangos.
    PaulScott59 I would like to know more of the workings of the health industry in the US, I understand they seem to have a stranglehold on healthcare with interests in all areas, hospitals, clinicians, physicians and surgeons and it is all big business, which I think is the whole problem, whilst money can buy most things the right to life shouldn't be priced out of the market.

  •  
    11

    verycold

    10/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: NEJM Roundtable on Health Cost Control Offers Insights

    Thank you for that bit of health care history in the UK. I sort of equate your scenario about contributions to a public health care system to the fact that millions of homeowners here in the US are paying exorbitant school taxes when in fact they no longer use the system. I live in a very high property tax state that "supposedly" has a good educational system. I can't comment on that since I no longer have children in a public school system. The problem is those that are using the system are frequently not coming close to paying their share as seen with renters. When times are good taxpayers just pay the huge tax load not really looking at where the money is going. Now that our economy is suffering and actually getting worse, seniors will not be in a position to pay these taxes because they can't get any sort of decent return on their fixed income.

    I am a real believer in reality. You cannot get blood out of a stone. All people regardless of economic status, need to be contributors to all national systems that give benefits to all at some point in their lives. So true at some point seniors had children in the school system and thus at that time did they pay their fair share? Probably not. Now with health care seniors will be the biggest burden and thus the youth will be mandated perhaps to pay for insurance they will most likely will not need for some time, but seniors will. So the youth, which is a smaller number, will be paying for seniors which is the bigger number. Youth will be burdened with more tax at a time when they are just beginning their journey which will impact their lives going forward.

    I know I have gone off the rails a bit, but my point is that at some point these economic burdens placed on all of us because of more wants become so great that no government program becomes adequately funded as seen in this country with SS and Medicare.

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