About Technology Industry

BNET Technology provides daily industry trends and news coverage with insights for managers and executives about all aspects of the high-tech industry. In addition to detailed tech company profiles, we bring you industry analysis on new mergers and acquisitions, tech products, investments, patents, and a host of other important technology related business issues.

The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

By Michael Hickins | Jul 15, 2009

The intensely personal argument being fought in comments to my post on Microsoft’s document format is the same one at the root of every major philosophical argument underlying revolution: it’s the fight between radicals who want to wipe the slate clean and start over (Robespierre, the Bolsheviks) and pragmatists who favor reform and compromise (Danton, the Mensheviks). The radicals are willing to risk everything, including their lives, while the pragmatists are only willing to risk what matters most.

The stakes aren’t quite as high when it comes to document formats, but the passions seem to run a close second — no wonder tech disputes are often called “religious wars.” At issue in the uncivil war being waged between Rob Weir and Gary Edwards is how to develop a document format to rival Microsoft Office that can succeed in the market and — to all appearances more importantly to Weir and Edwards — why the ODF format lost a bake-off in Massachusetts that should have been in the bag. (Weir is chief ODF architect at IBM and head of the OASIS ODF adoption technical committee; Edwards is CEO of OpenStack Business Systems and the former executive director of the Open Document Foundation.)

Neither side has any love lost for Microsoft, of course, although as usual, the radicals (in this case, Weir) accuse the reformers of betraying the cause, while the pragmatists (Edwards) accuse the radicals of pursuing their personal ambitions at the expense of the greater good. This technology dispute is over whether it’s best to come to the best possible terms with the inevitability of Microsoft’s continued elephantine presence, or to attempt to find an alternative that can supplant it entirely.

Edwards argues that any approach has to begin with the premise that Microsoft is ubiquitous:

The truth is that… ODF simply was not designed to be compatible with the productivity environment that dominates over 90% of existing business systems.

Weir’s argument boils down to the that Microsoft will never allow a competing format to exist, even if user experiences suffer as a result.

[Concerning the] Compatibility Pack, Microsoft set it up so the user would be prompted to automatically download it the first time a user tries to open a DOCX file. That is how Windows installations end up with a lot of unused and unwanted crud, like the recent .NET add-in for Firefox.

In the case of both France and Russia, the radicals triumphed in the short term, while the pragmatists were proven right in the long run — but the radicals could claim that their irredentism made the pragmatists seem more palpable by comparison. Just as the West needed an iron-fisted monarch to move past feudalism to the modern nation-state, we may have needed Microsoft’s hegemony to create an established and predictable IT market. And just as the nation state shucked off the shackles of tyranny after the monarch had done his terrible but necessary work, so it may be that the market will reward Microsoft’s good works by rejecting it in favor a more fractured and democratic state. Anyway, here’s hoping.

[Image source: Patrick G. Strosser]

Michael Hickins is a professional writer and journalist with a passion for ferreting out the intersections between technology and culture.

BNET User Analysis

Web Buzz:
  • Attorney General Holder drops case against Ted Stevens

    Muckety - 236 days 12 hours 19 minutes ago

    The slate has been wiped clean for former Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens. In the eyes of the law, at least, the man who narrowly lost re-election last fall after he was convicted of failing to report more than $250,000 worth of gifts from a contractor seeking political favors, is innocent. Hint: Click in map to explore connectionsStory continues below...

  • Is It Time to Declare Email Bankruptcy?

    Thomas Nelson Publishers - 75 days 21 hours 19 minutes ago

    You know it’s time to declare email bankruptcy when you are experiencing the following four symptoms. If this is true of you, I provide a seven-step strategy for wiping the digital slate clean and starting over. Is It Time to Declare Email Bankruptcy? Related posts: My Current Workflow System 10 Reasons to Send a Letter Rather Than...

  • Why We Must Ration Health Care

    New York Times - 131 days 13 hours 4 minutes ago

    A utilitarian philosopher’s argument for placing a dollar value on human life.
    IBM, Microsoft quibble over Office 2007's new ODF support

    Computer World - 202 days 4 hours 19 minutes ago

    In the latest sniping in the long-running feud over document format standards, IBM this week claimed that Microsoft Corp.'s Excel 2007 corrupted formulas and data in spreadsheets created in the OpenDocument Format

  • The agreement: Intel and AMD 'wipe the slate clean'

    BetaNews - 11 days 13 hours 43 minutes ago

    By Scott M. Fulton, III , Betanews The complete text of this morning's agreement between AMD and Intel was filed with the US Securities and Exchange Commission, and was made public early this afternoon . The agreement explicitly brings to an end three different legal disputes: the 2005 AMD antitrust suit against Intel in Delaware; the...

 
Reply to Story

BNET TalkbackShare your ideas and expertise on this topic

Subscribe to this discussion via Email or RSS

  •  
    1

    swhiser

    07/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    Interesting historical comparison.

  •  
    2

    swhiser

    07/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    You helpfully establish the ideological landscape, Michael. It is the spectrum from A) Compete against Microsoft with Your Company's Product (by preserving imperfect interop); to B) Make the World a Better Place for all Competition against Microsoft (by perfecting document interop)

    A helpful question for outsiders to make any sense of the personal stuff would be, "What is Rob selling & what is Gary selling?"

    Rob is definitely in the "A" camp: IBM's Lotus Symphony, it's document editors are an OpenOffice.org derivative on behalf of which IBM folks, reasonably, would like to own some portion of the MS Office marketshare for the editor. (Rob is also selling something having to do with the OpenDocument Foundation's lack of credibility. I think the problem is really the Foundation's lack of SOFTWARE.)

    One of the ways IBM approaches this 'SALES OBJECTIVE' is to lobby for the open standards connected with their editor to be accepted by government business offices (namely ODF). Cool! Many companies have historically done this. INCO Inc. for example -- the old Toronto-based nickel mining company (a monopoly) -- was basically a side-project of some smart-ass New York lawyers at Morgan Stanley and Sullivan Cromwell who from within the mantle of an old Bayonne New Jersey copper smelter purchased a huge tract of ore-rich Canadian territory then went up to Ottowa to get the mining law changed. Henceforth, Sudbury Ontario became a wasteland because the lawyers were successful marketing their nickel to the Japanese for the batteries for their little calculators and pocket radios. Cool.

    Gary, in contrast to Rob, is sell an idea (it's a little easier to sell a product): the idea being that enterprises would really like a document format like ODF, if not the very thing itself, and would be able to use it if such a format could move gracefully between all editors -- especially Microsoft's -- repeatedly and reliably.

    Gary's problem -- which was my problem too for a time -- was that he was relying on the list of "A" enitities, including ...

    Sun (OpenOffice | StarOffice)
    Adobe (Buzzword)
    Google (Writely) | Google docs)
    IBM (Lotus Notes | Workplace | Symphony)
    Oracle (sometime foe & sometime friend of IBM)
    Apple (Office for Mac licensor)
    Microsoft (MS Office its very self)

    ... to help and even finance the completion of a software device that would make document interop a smooth process. Perhaps it is this simple only in hindsight, but the list of companies under the spell of the "A" ideology do not want what Gary wanted or, for that matter, what enterprise software consumers still want, which is, and easier time of it.

  •  
    3

    rcweir

    07/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    You got it backwards, Michael. I'm being very pragmatic. Gary (and Sam -- both former Open Document Foundation leaders) have been pushing document interoperability snake oil for the better part of a decade, and delivered absolutely nothing but confusion.

    I on the other hand am working within standards organizations, and with office application vendors, both commercial and open source, including Microsoft, and with governments and other customers, to deliver real interoperability improvements.

    Gary and Sam and "Marbux" are on the outside howling their jeremiads in the wilderness. That isn't what one ordinarily calls pragmatism. If it were pragmatic, then one would hope that they would achieve more than just self-promotion in the past 5 years. There is nothing more pragmatic than results. But you don't see that, do you? Other than shuttering their Open Document Foundation, what exactly have these "pragmatists" achieved?

  •  
    4

    swhiser

    07/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    Rob is just as off-the-rails as we are. Even worse, here.

    In light of my pretty sober comparison above, what Rob is doing on the inside of the ODF standards process on behalf of IBM is Kafkaesque. It's as if you put Bill Gate's personal secretary in charge of some made-up thing called The Institute for Interoperability With the Mission to Ensure Interoperabilty Never Actually Comes About While We All Pretend to Look Like Interoperabilty is Our Absolute Goal.

    Gary just wants people to realize that Rob is a fox -- a fairly lame fox -- guarding the hen house of interop. That no one cares is a testiment to the irrelevance now of ODF. OASIS is a show-committe ... see Knowleton's request for Weir to step down.

    Meanwhile, the value to enterprise users to have some flexibility has never diminished.

  •  
    5

    swhiser

    07/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    "I on the other hand am working within standards organizations, and with office application vendors, both commercial and open source, including Microsoft, and with governments and other customers, to deliver real interoperability improvements."

    So how ya doin' with that, Rob?

    Any progress?

    Any more state governments go for that ODF stuff since Massachusetts' CIO put his job on the line for you "interoperability improvements"?

    Q. f*%ckin E. D.

  •  
    6

    rcweir

    07/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    Of course, we can believe the "three guys without a garage" (http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/10/cracks-in-foundation.html) that IBM, Sun, Google, Oracle and Microsoft are plotting together to destroy interoperability, while pretending to be competitors, with little ol' me as the evil genius in charge. (I'm flattered, really. This goes on my resume.) Or we can take off the tinfoil hats, roll up our sleeves and get the real work done. I certainly know what I'm doing.

    As for results, I note that since the Open Document Foundation disbanded, we now have many more implementations of ODF and many more government adopters of ODF around the world than we had when the Foundation was selling its snake oil. Norway just announced a couple weeks ago. And then we have Uruguay, South Africa, Brazil, Belgium. Denmark, Malaysia, Netherlands, etc. So I would not underestimate the contribution your absence has made to the success of ODF. But I must ask: how have you done for your agenda? Any adoption of the Foundation's ideas beyond the perimeter of your own heads? I didn't think so.

    In any case you and Gary are peddling some really screwy form of logic. I assume there is some fancy Latin term for this kind of false argument, but I don't have it at hand. But it goes something like this: You claim that linseed oil cures cancer. Then when a cancer expert says "No it doesn't" you respond with "Why do you deny that cancer exists?". That is a totally bogus argument.

    I am not saying that the whole business process integration side of MS Office does not exist or it is not important. I'm just saying that the solution peddled by you and Gary does not work, that it is snake oil, ineffective, impractical and without technical merit, and that in the five years you've been peddling it to corporations and governments, you've failed at every step of the way and have nothing but a heap of rejection letters to show for it. I wish it were otherwise. Honestly, I do. I also wish the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy existed. But they don't, so I need to fall back on solving real problems with real engineering solutions, and not playing with fairy dust.

  •  
    7

    swhiser

    07/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    Rob. You're not paying attention to what the documents are doing (and not doing).

  •  
    8

    AdmGorshkov

    07/17/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    from Gorshkov (all over the net, no login here).

    A much more accurate historical comparison would be Rob as a Menshevik, and Gary as a Tsarist, kicking, screaming, and promising the moon to leave things just the way they are.

    There's a damned good reason there were so many palace revolutions in Russia.

  •  
    9

    Marbux

    07/17/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    @Rob Weir: "I on the other hand am working
    within standards organizations ... to deliver real
    interoperability improvements."

    Then why, Rob, after seven years of existence,
    has the OpenDocument Technical Committee still
    not added a work item to its agenda to bring
    ODF into compliance with the ISO/IEC JTC 1
    Directives requirement that international
    standards "designed to facilitate interoperability
    need to specify clearly and unambiguously the
    conformity requirements that are essential to
    achieve the interoperability."
    http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/24
    89/186491/186605/AnnexI.html (.)

    As I have pointed out to you many times, that is
    a mandatory requirement absent the consent of
    the Secretaries-General of ISO and IEC, which
    has never been granted.
    http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/24
    89/186491/186605/Chapter1.html

    You have yourself stated that "interoperability is
    most efficiently achieved by conformance
    to an open standard where the standard clearly
    states those requirements which must be met to
    achieve interoperability."
    http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/05/follow-up-
    on-excel-2007-sp2s-odf.html (italics in original).

    When I suggested that you put it to a vote on
    the ODF TC whether to add that work item to the
    TC Agenda to bring ODF into compliance with JTC
    1 Directives, you replied:

    "As a practical matter, if I phrased a question in
    that way, most members would likely abstain.
    Since JTC1 Directives are far from unambiguous
    in this and other areas, and the topic clearly has
    policy and legal implications that is out of depth
    for the average technical contributor to the TC,
    including myself, a large percentage of
    abstentions and a lack of decision would be the
    natural outcome. We need to break it down and
    swallow the elephant 'one bite at a time'."

    http://tinyurl.com/l8fp5w

    I was not persuaded by your argument that you
    and the other TC members are too dumb to
    understand plain English. Your company and the
    other big vendors have their lawyers to advise
    them and we software users have had seven
    years of the consequences of the ODF TC's "one
    bite at a time" excuses for not "clearly and
    unambiguously specify[ing] the conformity
    requirements that are essential to achieve the
    interoperability" of programs that implement the
    ODF specification.

    So during what year do you propose to add that
    work item to the TC's agenda, Rob? It's still not
    there. http://wiki.oasis-
    open.org/office/List_of_Proposals

  •  
    10

    rcweir

    07/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Battle Of Microsoft Mirrors The French Revolution

    Paul, If a TC Member requests an item be added to the agenda for discussion and or a vote, I am welcome to add it. But I do not take agenda items from the peanut gallery. Sorry.

    As for JTC1, they approved ODF, unanimously, despite your protestations that it is out of compliance with JTC1 Directives. So your idiosyncratic interpretation of JTC1 Directives appears not to be shared by JTC1 itself. I am truly sorry that reality could not be more accommodating to your delusions.

Please add your comment:

  1. You are currently: a Guest |
  2.  

Basic HTML tags that work in comments are: bold (<b></b>), italic (<i></i>), underline (<u></u>), and hyperlink (<a href></a)

advertisement
advertisement
  • Click Here
  • Click Here
  • Click Here
advertisement
Click Here